Interesting Peter – and it got me thinking – is it *really* doing the sort of facial scanning that their little graphic demos show

it has an “IR dot projector” on the front to measure the 3d stuff as well as an IR camera to help with the image recognition (so it works at night). I guess this might mean it can work with sunglasses, since they don’t block IR do they?

Some notes from a Grauniad journo who has actually used FaceID

pffftttt I’ll think I’ll stick with speculation from people who haven’t used it or have even the slightest idea of how it actually works as they haven’t watched the presentation 🙂

re FaceID and MTB.. what if I happen to wear a full face and goggles on the bike but need to stop to open my phone to check something? Presume i’ll have to remove those to unlock the device? instead of just a glove for TouchID now.. potential annoyance for motorcyclists too? 😐

I wonder if there’s a way to remove the scarf?

Of course, Mr Sarkypants, but the point is it’s extra faff, and not necessary when using a finger print scanner. You do need to remove your gloves, but you’ve probably done this already to use the phone.

Presume i’ll have to remove those to unlock the device?

No, you can just enter your passcode instead. Same as TouchID.

No, you can just enter your passcode instead. Same as TouchID.

Ah, of course. what a silly billy i am.

Of course, Mr Sarkypants, but the point is it’s extra faff, and not necessary when using a finger print scanner.

Not for a scarf no but it is if you’re wearing gloves even for the lock code.

You do need to remove your gloves, but you’ve probably done this already to use the phone.

So not a big step to remove a scarf or use the lock code then?

So not a big step to remove a scarf or use the lock code then?

Fercrissake just go indoors wouldja

So not a big step to remove a scarf or use the lock code then?

Yeah, it’s more work. We should be making things quicker and easier, not more faffy. Doesn’t sound great, so far, but we’ll see if the market likes it or not.

I wear gloves much more often than I wear a scarf, taking one off to unlock my phone has never seemed the ordeal that pulling down a scarf is being represented as.

FaceID people where asking about beards earlier but Apple said thr tech kearns and adjusts, sonif you start growing a beard / putting on weight it learns your face is changing and adapts

I imagine it’ll be like the face scanners at passport control no? On my passport I haven’t a beard but I still get through now even with my lustrous mane…

I wear gloves much more often than I wear a scarf, taking one off to unlock my phone has never seemed the ordeal that pulling down a scarf is being represented as.

Oh for goodness’ sake!

Of course it’s not being presented as an ordeal. I am talking about the ergonomics of something you do dozens of times a day and personally, I like that to be as near to instant as possible.

There’s no doubt it’ll work. The question is whether or not it’ll be better than a fingerprint reader.

The question is whether or not it’ll be better than a fingerprint reader.

for use on a desktop/laptop there’s no question it’ll be better than a fingerprint reader IMO. Makes sense they’d debut new tech on their flagship product & then incorporate it into other things later. Makes me lol the way everyone queues up to poor scorn on anything new instead of showing a little imagination/optimism (especially people allegedly interested in technology).

for use on a desktop/laptop there’s no question it’ll be better than a fingerprint reader IMO

Agree. Windows Hello is great in that application.

But we are talking about phones aren’t we? And they have removed the fingerprint scanner from the phones, so it’s this or a pin, isn’t it?

Makes me lol the way everyone queues up to poor scorn on anything new instead of showing a little imagination/optimism.

It doesn’t take much imagination to work out it’s going to be slower and more awkward than the fingerprint, as said it’s unlocked before you get it anywhere near your face, in somewhere crowded like the underground not having to look at your phone to use it would be good.

To me faceID seems a viable option, along with passcode it’s a similar process as now with the fingerprintID and passcode.

The action to hold the phone up to fingerprintID currently means I’m 99% of the time looking into the phone as is, this new option means I’ve no need to bother wiggling the phone around to get my thumb in the “correct” position. Also, on access using fingerprintID as now, I’d say 60% of the time it fails to recognise my thumbprint and I have to passcode myself in anyway.

So in my conclusion, it’ll take me about 5 mins to get used to faceID UI and probably have similar access issues and have to passcode myself in as I do now.

No real bother.

I’m all for the Emoji AR animations in texts me 😆

On my Samsung the home button is the scanner. So I press home to wake it up, and it also magically unlocks.

The action to hold the phone up to fingerprintID currently means I’m 99% of the time looking into the phone as is, this new option means I’ve no need to bother wiggling the phone around to get my thumb in the “correct” position. Also, on access using fingerprintID as now, I’d say 60% of the time it fails to recognise my thumbprint and I have to passcode myself in anyway.

In that case the Apple fingerprint thing sounds crap in comparison to others then…

Maybe I’ve just got cake all over my thumbs 😆

in somewhere crowded like the underground not having to look at your phone to use it would be good.

You will be able to take a call and/or use siri for functions that do not require unlocking just as you do now, exactly how many other functions of a smart phone are there that doesn’t require you to look at the screen.

In that case the Apple fingerprint thing sounds crap in comparison to others then…

The only problems I have had with apple’s fingerprint scanner (other than wearing gloves) is if my hands are a bit wet, ie mid workout, but I just wipe my thumb on my shorts and then it works.

There are as many if not more potential problems with a thumb reader as their are with face recognition if both are done to a decent standard. But face recognition is not something that makes me want to upgrade.

fairly easy for say the police to stick the phone in front of your face and POW it opens

whereas now you can refuse to use the fingerprint scanner or passcode to unlock your phone there is no legal protection to having the phone put vaguely in front of your face

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/apple-pay
The article was specifically talking about using apple pay for the barriers on the underground and stuff like that.

So when do we think the ‘deals’ will start to come out?

My out of contract 6 doesn’t have enough memory, and the battery is dying.

So I’m thinking of a 7 which will hopefully become cheaper. Really cant see what more I would get from an 8?

I would go for the SE, but if I am going to start a new contract, I may as well have waterproof.

in somewhere crowded like the underground not having to look at your phone to use it would be good.

I hope you’re not advocating upskirt shots.

fairly easy for say the police to stick the phone in front of your face and POW it opens

whereas now you can refuse to use the fingerprint scanner or passcode to unlock your phone there is no legal protection to having the phone put vaguely in front of your face

I think there is a potential problem there, one that isn’t just about technology, but about privacy rights under law and authoritarian process. But I would like to see how technology could protect the individual rights in that circumstance.

not having to look at your phone to use it would be good

What would you be using your phone for where you don’t look at it??

Of course it’s not being presented as an ordeal. I am talking about the ergonomics of something you do dozens of times a day and personally, I like that to be as near to instant as possible.

Do you wear a scarf all day?

What would you be using your phone for where you don’t look at it??

Paying for stuff, unlock tap and go. I don’t need to bring it anywhere near my face to do that.
Seems like the it’s perfect I don’t know why everyone doesn’t do it defense is starting 🙂

bikebouy: sounds like you need to set up TouchID again. I have thumb and forefinger of both hands registered and can’t say I ever have much bother getting it to work. Most of the time it unlocks before I’ve even thought about it.

What would you be using your phone for where you don’t look at it??

Driving is the obvious one for me. Siri won’t read out incoming text messages unless the phone is unlocked. Having TouchID means I can unlock it without even looking at my phone.

Paying for stuff, unlock tap and go

I am not sure where you see the extra delay for face recognition instead of a thumb reader in that process.

Of course it’s not being presented as an ordeal. I am talking about the ergonomics of something you do dozens of times a day and personally, I like that to be as near to instant as possible.

Yes it does well certainly with CarPlay is does.

Having TouchID means I can unlock it without even looking at my phone.

You’re driving why are you touching your phone?

I am not sure where you see the extra delay for face recognition instead of a thumb reader in that process.

I can unlock my phone in my pocket (nexus and the sensor is sensibly on the back where my finger rests) so yeah it’s slower, then when it doesn’t get you right like the live demo etc. add stuff like that as a gimmick but leave the sensible stuff on there (or as said just copy the others and put it on the back)
I can also unlock it while not keeping my phone out of sight like in meetings etc without looking at it until I need it.

fairly easy for say the police to stick the phone in front of your face and POW it opens

whereas now you can refuse to use the fingerprint scanner or passcode to unlock your phone there is no legal protection to having the phone put vaguely in front of your face

They’ve introduced a new “anti-police” feature where if you tap the power button 6 times quickly it disables FaceID and wont open anything without passcode.

Link:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/17/16161758/ios-11-touch-id-disable-emergency-services-lock

100% pointless phone and I’ll be laughing (on the inside) at anyone that gets one over the next 18month until #11 comes out and then I’ll repeat the process….

You’re driving why are you touching your phone?

…to unlock it…? Was that not clear?

So it seems likely there are going to be pro’s and con’s to this. With not everyone getting the full ‘works for me’ quota.

And thus it will always be.

As an IT bod, it reasuring that beneath the showcase fluff at these sorts of keynotes there is technology and process being developed that hopfully can be spun off into other areas. I have no idea what these areas are, as I’m not a creative sort of chap, but my spidey senses indicate it too be so.

100% pointless phone and I’ll be laughing (on the inside) at anyone that gets one over the next 18month until #11 comes out and then I’ll repeat the process….

You sound like a hoot

to unlock it…? Was that not clear?

Yes but you’re driving why are you touching your phone?

As explained, in order for me to use the hands-free voice-enabled features of my phone, I sometimes require to first unlock it, which involves the INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS manoeuvre of briefly moving my left hand several centimetres from the gearstick to touch the phone with my thumb. An action that takes all of two seconds, without taking my eyes off the road ahead, and is usually done while I am completely stationary.

I understand that in your position you are twitchy about such things Drac, but honestly changing the radio station is a far greater risk.