internal doors and handles – experts to the forum please…..

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  • internal doors and handles – experts to the forum please…..
  • Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    looking at replacing our tired, glossed hollow doors with some of those white panelled jobbies, you know the type, 2 for £50 from wickes and dont need painting.  however, our sizes are all over the place so i dont think its possible so id appreciate a yay or nay please.

    7 doors to replace, all 35mm thick.

    1.  1920mm x 730

    2.  1940 x 760

    3.  1940 x 617

    4  1935 x 680

    5  1925 x 680

    6  1940 x 760

    7.  1940 x 760

    im pretty sure i was told that you can only take 5mm per side from these doors, that right?  if so looks like im stuck with them and will just sand, re-gloss and stick new handles on.

    now, onto the handles.  ill be replacing these no matter what so just a few questions on whatll fit the doors i currently have.  ive just taken one of the latches out to measure up……..

    ‘backset’ seems to be 45mm.

    door edge to back is 65mm

    width is 40mm

    does that mean that these door handles would fit in the holes (2 choices, id choose ’63/45mm backset)

    thanks a lot

    stevextc
    Member

    You can take way more off the top and bottom of the Wickes White doors… at a certain point you have to do top and bottom else the panels start to look wrong.

    The cheapo pine ones are OK as well (at the price) and a fair bit more flexible as regards trimming.

    I might be stating the obvious but start with the biggest and trim first… any accidents it’s still usable for one of the smaller ones…

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    thanks

    wickes doors are 1981mm by either 762 or 686.  looking at the sizes then, itd mean 60mm at most from the height.  2 inches, inch or so each end, that ok?

    but even then, at 10mm max off the sides, id get 3 doors in at 760 and 2 at 680.  im still 2 doors short so itd be either all or nothing methinks.

    cheers

    stevextc
    Member

    Realistically you can take as much as you want off top/bottom.

    If it’s so much it’s into the insides you can stick a bit of wood back on.. its not like it supports any weight or anything… it mainly just keeps the dust and moisture out.

    I’ve only got one white one… the rest are all the cheap pine panel ones. They are easy to paint if you remove the bits holding in the panels…

    The amount you can take off the sides is limited mainly by the handle…

    Anyway… they do the job.. not the doors I’d have if I won the lottery but they open and close and to some extent keep heat in and noise out 😀

    globalti
    Member

    Having changed all 12 doors in our house, cut, hung, latches fitted, three coats of clear varnish sanded down between, here’s my hap’orth:

    If your door casings are old and wonky, it’s not too difficullt to remove and replace them with standard casings, which come as a kit. This depends on you being willing to redecorate but at least you’d be starting with new hinge rebates and everything would be straight and true. There’s nothing wose than trying to reuse old hinge rebates and trying to hang a new door in a wonky casing. New casings would save you a lot of stress and hassle fitting the doors to all those different sizes and the doors would fit and shut with a nice clean click from the latch.

    There isn’t much choice of latches but plenty of choice of handles; we got some nice brushed stainless ones from Sod-it-All before they went tits up.

    Ignore the advice about not cutting latch holes in rails and put the latches and handles where they look balanced and are ergonomic.

    If you buy all the doors from one retailer, ask for a discount. They might even supply all the hardware as well.

    timba
    Member

    Dependent on your existing doors, I’d consider tidying them up and go for several long bike rides during the time saved

    Hanging new doors so that they fit well is high on my list of hated jobs, YMMV

    If you plan on following the DIY-route to hang new doors then I’d invest in an electric planer, sharp chisels and re-use the existing hinges (they’ll probably clean up well and saves half-a-job). You can get router jigs for latches and hinges but a chisel will do the job

    A suitable auger bit will reduce the pain of making the latch mortice, clean up with a chisel. Don’t be tempted by ball-catches, the doors will forever be blowing open

    wrightyson
    Member

    Laminate router and mind your fingers 😉

    If you are going to be staying in the house any length of time rebuild the frames so they accept standard door sizes

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    I really wanted throughout the house those nice, neat  looking, clean lined, mass market white doors with pseudo  grain, matching handles etc. Unfortunately, every doorway in my house has a dimension that is a rule unto itself based on some bodge job circa 1980 or before.  In the end I realised i had to opt for old stripped reclaimed pine doors to attempt some match fit of each odd dimension, rather than modern doors. it took about 6 months to find all doors to fit odd  dimensions whilst also identical in shade, design and without too many imperfections. One door, the most expensive due to alterations, had to be completely taken apart and scaled down to look proper in it’s tiny frame (pantry). People suggested that I should ‘treat’ all the doors (paint, wax or varnish), but I’ve left them untreated natural/matt stripped pine and happy with them.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    well, after looking into it ive decided its too much hassle for me right now to change the doors, so theyre being glossed white.  what i need now is a bit of advice about the handles.

    all my handles at present have the same sized latch including the bathroom and toilet.  the locks theyve got just seem to lock the handle rather than push out a separate bolt lower down (privacy lock?), so theres only the space for a normal door latch.

    now i like the look of these type handles at around a fiver a pop…..

    Stainless Steel Interior Door Handles on Rose with Duo Finish H730133D

    however, they dont do the bathroom ‘privacy lock’ handles to match them. if i search the net for privacy lock handles i can only find items way pricier than these.

    anyone know of a place that sells similar to the above (handles with roses?) that also include privacy lock handles in the same style?

    thanks

    If you were to change the latch to a ‘bathroom lock’ type you shouldbe able to geta ‘thumb turn’ to activate the lock mechinism

    a bit like this   bathroom lock thumb turn

    https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/reguitti-turn-and-release-polished-chrome-314620

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    the problem with that is, that it needs a bigger latch to include the locking bolt, such as this.

    Image result for bathroom latch

    im trying to find one that just isolates the handle so i dont have to drill/chisel another lump out of the door.  my bathroom and toilet doors have this size latch…..

    Image result for bathroom latch

    thanks

    timba
    Member

    Not ideal, but you could consider either a barrel bolt (straight or necked), or a rack bolt with an oval rack bolt thumb turn. The second option will need minimal drilling and chiselling, but it is bare minimum and even I’d consider them for that reason 🙂

    You should find a finish to match your handle, satin nickel??, and maybe ignore the more agricultural styles

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    i had to google those to see what you meant.  ive considered the barrel bolt and had it as a last resort, but i definitely like the rack bolt idea better, so thanks for that, and yes youre right, doesnt seem like too much to drill…..

    cheers

    Try http://www.premdor.co.uk – I used to work there – many more sizes available than the standard, and custom sizes also available. But you may need to go through a merchant such as National Hickman, Travis Perkins etc

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    right, handles and latches have been delivered, mebbes not as sturdy as i was expecting but hey ho.  ive got a bit of time so i thought id get cracking today.  another problem now tho :-/

    i correctly gave them the right size for the backset, but now ive opened them up the body is smaller and so i dont believe theyre any good for me.  pic below……

    also the front plate is a little wider, which in itself isnt a problem, that can be chiselled away, but obviously theres nowt for the screws to go into now either as its just open space behind the holes…..

    ive just looked on the site to see if they actually sell anything like my old size but they all seem to be those skinny latches, even looking at screwfix they all seem the same.

    am i likely to find any bigger ones at my old sizes?  id compromise and fit the old ones after cleaning them up, but ive really bent and twisted one of them getting it out, so looks like im committed to fitting correct sized jobbies.

    thanks

    timba
    Member

    Pack the mortise out, you can get lengths of smaller rectangular section from timber merchants. Cheapest would be offcuts. Use a foaming glue, Gorilla glue-style, to fill the gaps. Dampen the wood first with water.

    It will foam 🙂 , so anything in there to wedge your packers will be glued too. Cling film might help

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    not entirely sure i can follow your train of thought there, cant picture what you mean…… how would i keep the wood at the top of the hole for starters?  i asked the shop and this was their advice…..

    Having viewed the image you attached I would suggest using wood filler around the forend plate of the new latch to fill the mortice on the edge of the door left by the old latch. The new latch will be held in place once the spindle and bolt through fixings are used during installation of the door handles so there would be no need to fill the hole that accommodates the existing latch case.

    i think theyre implying i dont bother filling in the hole at all apart from a bit at the front (forend?) but i still dont understand that reply too well either.

    is it just me or are the pic links broken, i cant see the pic you posted in your reply.

    thanks for your help.

    EDIT: i can see the pics now but there isnt one in your reply now (it showed a broken link a few minutes ago), maybe a forum glitch….

    Premier Icon chickenman
    Subscriber

    I would do a Timba suggests, just brace them apart while the glue dries with something (broken match sticks?). As the grain of these packers is parallel to the latches, they are easy to pare back if the slot becomes too small.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    im sorry, but i still cant picture what it is youre suggesting.  are you suggesting building up the wider hole from the inside with no latch in there?  and then when its built up, pop the new latch in, hoping that its the right size?  top and bottom?  dont spose youve got an idiots guide or pics to show what you mean have you?

    sorry for being a bit of a donut 🙂

    timba
    Member

    “…building up the wider hole from the inside…”

    Exactly that. You need something to screw the face plate of the new latch to. I think that securing the latch using the spindle alone will allow the latch to rattle around too much. About 8mm of wooden packing, top and bottom, glued in should do it.

    Widen the recess for the face plate with a chisel. Mark the outline with a sharp knife rather than a pencil (too thick). Go gently with the chisel, hand pressure alone should be enough with the grain, don’t batter the handle of the chisel with a mallet, you could easily split the door and make more work 🙂 Across the grain will be harder and might need a sharp tap with a mallet (hammer is ok with some chisels). Use the chisel edge flat face out, tapered face inside the recess outline. Fill the spare recess with filler after the latch is fitted.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    ahh im with you now.  about time eh? 🙂

    so saw some 8mmish bits of packing wood up, maybe a bit shy of being level to the end of door, and the right width too.  blob of quick-drying glue on one side, insert bottom one first into hole and set.  blob of glue on upper one, push into hole and hold until set, maybe with a spoon or something?  push new latch into hole ensuring the ‘backset’ hole lines up for spindle, mark around the edge, take out and chisel new width.  inset latch and use wood filler along the front to create even surface to latch.  that sound right?

    couple of questions……. why the foaming gorilla glue advice ^^^, what does that bring over normal superglue?  and secondly, ive used wood filler once before many moons ago and thought it was crap.  has it improved these days?  can you use caulk instead maybe?  and if not, any wood filler suggestions?

    thanks a lot.

    timba
    Member

    Foaming glue will fill any gaps. If the mortise is hand made there will be gaps

    Two part filler will harden, caulk less so. I find that caulk tends to sink over larger areas

    nickjb
    Member

    The foaming glue is to fill any gaps. The chiselled hole is likely to be all over the place so you won’t get great contact. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. If you cut the wood slithers to be a tight fit then tap them in with hammer (not stupid tight, just slight interference) then they’ll be fine with normal wood glue but no harm in using the foaming stuff. They won’t go anywhere while it dries. Not superglue. Also make sure you pilot the screw holes.

    Modern wood filler is great stuff. The two part stuff, with hardener.

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    thank you.

    ive found ronseal high performance wood filler, not having as much luck with gorilla foaming glue.  where would i get that?  is it gorilla white glue?

    i also had another idea, but dont think its viable……  i thought i could maybe create a piece of wood maybe slightly larger than the latch but around twice as long, then squidge a load of wood filler in the hole, then push the wood piece into it, thus forcing surplus filler out.  leave it a day or so then pull out and hey presto a latch sized hole?  i think the filler would just set solid onto it tho and itd be impossible to remove.  crap idea actually 😀

    timba
    Member

    https://www.gorillatough.com/product/original-gorilla-glue/

    Phone can’t cope with the link thingy, but any foaming polyurethane glue will do. Gorilla glue is possibly best known.

    Not sure about your filler idea tho, but let us know how it goes 🙂

    Premier Icon sadexpunk
    Subscriber

    just an update on this.  fitted em all the other day.  tried the first one with the ‘sawn filler bits of wood top and bottom’, but hit a slight problem.  the top and bottom of the latch has a moving ‘noggin’ when the square bolt turns.  this was rubbing on the wood and not returning the bolt when the handle was released.  even after removing wood and chiselling out recesses it didnt seem to improve it.  so……. plan B.

    this was just using the wood filler, not to fill the space but just enough of a splodge top and bottom to set and give me enough to screw into.  again bit of a faff.  golf ball sized filler with pea sized hardener will set in around 20 mins will it?  around 5 minutes for me!  it was setting by the time i was on door 2 of 7.  mixed some more with less hardener, still set well before 20 mins.  a few mixes later and all the latches were in and the chiselled out recesses in frame filled too.

    handles still became a little tighter with each screw i put in, which meant theres no lovely free returning action, so ive loosened the odd one here and there to remedy.

    all in all its been a faff, but good job satisfaction now its completed.  thanks a lot for your advice, greatly valued.

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