when the M1 was built all the americans asked that all the bridges were at least 5m high so that they could get cruise missles under them.

Think that may be an urban legend, the standard night for an Unmarked Bridge in the UK is 16 feet 6 inches.

That doesn’t mean the Yanks didn’t ask though I suppose, just means there was no need for them to ask that’s all

My father was based at RAF Fylingdales (BMEWS site) for a while, I had a tour of the base once and the guy told us if the alarms go off we’ve got about 7 minutes until stuff starts blowing up. Just in case that wasn’t comforting enough (to a 10 year old) he then went on to tell us that chances were if WW3 actually kicked off then Spetsnatz would launch a pre-emptive attack on the base and everyone would be dead before the bombs went off anyway. Then the alarm actually went off but after a bloke got a manual out and checked some stuff it turned out it was known space debris so was all OK, I was bricking it for a while though…

.

The Russians never would have gotten tanks here in Manchester. IF they did they wouldn’t have to worry about any roads, they’d be more concerned with their various illnesses/cancers etc killing whats left of their own soldiers.

I imagine there was a large contingent of **** who would rise up for their Russian masters here though.

Quite a few privately owned buildings had air raid sirens mounted on top and were connected to local control centres by intercom – if the balloon did indeed go up they would receive a call, get down to the intercom to get the detail, press the big red button to activate the alarm then hope for the best. One of my dad’s mates used to run a pub in Hale, the name of which escapes me at the moment, and he showed us the intercom in the pub cellars when they were doing one of their regular tests with the local control.

The old mill on our street had one as well – before I knew better about the testing, a few of us kids were home alone when the siren went off for a couple of minutes and, with no adults to tell us it was just a test, we spent the next half an hour hiding under the stairs whimpering in the vain hope that, as with conventional bombs, that would be enough to protect us from whatever number of kiltons was about to rain down on Manchester Airport.

The russians invasion plan was based on the threat of a missile attack. Their plan was to scare all the politicians into there bunkers around the UK. A team of sleeper agents would then put their special training as builders into effect. Concrete over the entrances and take over the country.

Anyone with any sense knows that Barratts homes where really a cover for the KGB.

Murray – Member
The TSR2 was cancelled because their weren’t sufficient nuclear bombs to arm them – production was concentrated on Polaris warheads.

Polaris was made by the Lockheed Corporation of California for the United States Navy and we bought them in 1963. The TSR-2 was cancelled in 1965 mainly becasue it was massivly over budget.

I remember being told that there are several straight, flat sections of dual carriageway in the eastern part of England that could be used as runways for Jaguars/Tornados in a war scenario. Similarly, there are bridges that would provide the necessary protection from some air raids and satellite recon.

There were plans to put bomb shelters in the basements of all town halls, but there was a problem – some town halls had small basements and needed the space for storage.

So in some places, a big pile of bricks was provided, and if the siren sounded the staff were instructed to get bricklaying very, very quickly…

Oh, and another one I heard from someone who works at Faslane: The boat lift there is a gigantic and very expensive construction, able to lift an entire missile submarine out of the water. When you do the lift, it’s important to keep it level. They tried all sorts of gyroscopic, laser-beam, computerised leveling systems, and gave up on them – the best solution was that a bloke paints a white cross on the floor, and the operator watches a weight hung from the ceiling.

when the M1 was built all the americans asked that all the bridges were at least 5m high so that they could get cruise missles under them.
Think that may be an urban legend, the standard night for an Unmarked Bridge in the UK is 16 feet 6 inches.

That doesn’t mean the Yanks didn’t ask though I suppose, just means there was no need for them to ask that’s all

I doubt there was much chance of that. I have no proof they didn’t ask for anything but the M1 was mostly completed in the late 60’s and cruise missiles were based at Greenham Common and Molesworth in the 1980’s. Nearest motorways to those are the M4 and M11 or A1.

I’m also pretty sure that no British roads or motorways were built to be used as emergency runways in the event of war. There seem to have been plenty of rumours that some were but most appear to have been easily debunked due to the number of bridges and permanent furniture.

I do recall reading somewhere that some German roads were built to be used as runways first in the late 1930’s and then again during the cold war in both East and West Germany.

All wonderfully interesting, but as nothing when compared to Orford Ness.
Generally reckoned, by them that know, to be at least as significant as Bletchley Park to the winning of WW2 and was consistently so throughout the Cold War and also as far back as WW1, yet completely obscure, to most, to this day.

The book about its history by Paddy Heazell is well worth a read. Goes right up to developing a counter to the Exocets during the Falklands War.

The Soviets operated a system called the “Dead Hand”.

Worried about their command and control leadership being killed in a first strike the Soviets developed an automated system for retaliating to a nuclear strike even if the people who normally made the decision were dead.

If the Dead Hand system detected a nuclear detonation on Soviet territory it would automatically respond by launching missiles at pre programmed targets.

It was Mutaully Assured Destruction taken to its logical conclusion – we’ll still kill you even if we are all dead

It was Mutaully Assured Destruction taken to its logical conclusion – we’ll still kill you even if we are all dead

Even though thankfully it never did (nor hopefully ever will) come to this, I still find this very disturbing

BigEaredBiker – Member

when the M1 was built all the americans asked that all the bridges were at least 5m high so that they could get cruise missles under them.
Think that may be an urban legend, the standard night for an Unmarked Bridge in the UK is 16 feet 6 inches.

That doesn’t mean the Yanks didn’t ask though I suppose, just means there was no need for them to ask that’s all

I doubt there was much chance of that. I have no proof they didn’t ask for anything but the M1 was mostly completed in the late 60’s and cruise missiles were based at Greenham Common and Molesworth in the 1980’s. Nearest motorways to those are the M4 and M11 or A1.

I’m also pretty sure that no British roads or motorways were built to be used as emergency runways in the event of war. There seem to have been plenty of rumours that some were but most appear to have been easily debunked due to the number of bridges and permanent furniture.

I do recall reading somewhere that some German roads were built to be used as runways first in the late 1930’s and then again during the cold war in both East and West Germany.

Concur with your time line.

The RAF did do some Jaguar landings on motorways.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAVDOBWtBuU[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxdZIMy8zJc&feature=relmfu[/video]

Oops!

Some Scandinavian countries closer to Russia made sure they could operate aircraft from roads- Sweden has some reinforced roads I think.

Something in the news a couple of months ago too about Korea or Taiwan practicing landing F-16s on the road.

EDIT here: F16 on the road
“Various sections of the island’s motorways are designed to be used as runways at short notice.”

I think I read somewhere that it makes more sense to be able to do this if you are very close to the likely threat so wouldn’t get much warning before the bombers appear overhead.

Taiwan defo has dual purpose roads/landing strips and has had for many years. Also dual purpose civilian/military airports.

For the cycling link………

Chicksands Woods had an elephant cage during the Cold War

8)

The Jag did some test landings on the m55 before it opened.

Here in Switzerland the cold war never ended. Most buildings have built-in nuclear bunkers (we keep paper files and old PCs in ours) or are sufficiently close to communal bunkers.
There are regular tests of the nuclear alarm signal too.

If the “balloon” ever does go up, what’s left of Europe will be fine for cigarettes, chocolate and independent sport associations.. 🙂

we keep paper files and old PCs in ours

So you’ll be playing Wolfenstein 3D through the nuclear winter? 😉

The RAF did do some Jaguar landings on motorways.

Interesting as that’s different to what I’ve always been told (not that I am special or an expert on these matters)…

A bit more digging (and mostly wiki stuff) and I think what happened is the Jaguar was tested on the M55 when the road was being built. If it was from Warton (as wiki says) it might not even have been in RAF service as that is a BAE aerodrome not a military/RAF base. Therefore this wasn’t to test the M55 for suitability as an emergency runway but rather test the Jaguars ability to be used on roads designated to be used as airstrips. Jaguars may well have ended up doing this if the cold war turned hot – especially in West Germany where some roads had been designed with this in mind.

This makes a lot more sense and ties in with what I have previously heard. It also helps explain the stories that British motorways were designed to be emergency airstrips – the best stories always have a grain of truth to them.

Belarus has a few roads which can also be used as airstrips.

Polaris was made by the Lockheed Corporation of California for the United States Navy and we bought them in 1963

We bought the missile system, but designed & manufactured our own warheads. The Chevaline modification was a UK project, too.

Andy

My father recently mentioned that in the late 80/early 90’s he was informed that he had been assigned a seat in the north eastern control bunker (near flambrough?) in the event of nuclear war. He wasn’t military but had skills deemed necessary for dealing with the aftermath

He had to keep it secret though as there wouldn’t be space for his wife or kids. I imagine that would be a tough decision to make…

He had to keep it secret though as there wouldn’t be space for his wife or kids. I imagine that would be a tough decision to make…

Depends on how much you had been annoying him at the time I suppose 😆

I was a bit of a prat as a teen so I’m sure there were many an occasion the old man hoped that Reagan might have a ‘moment’ so he could get a few hours peace 😀

On the subject of motorways/landing strips… Surely that’s just a case of finding a big straight bit with no street furniture? Seems like you could easily land a plane on most of the M8- no street lights, few bridges, etc. Narrower than a runway though.

As for reinforcement, take a Tornado, the absolute maximum takeoff weight is 28000kg, so lighter than a big truck- though on less contact points of course and you don’t normally have to land a truck. Then again you’re not going to land thousands of planes on a road every day.

So, feasability wise it seems simple?

Yeah – the Swedes had some roads assigned as “hot” airfields. I remember driving through bits of dense forest and you’d suddenly come to a straight bit of road where the trees had been cut right back on both sides. I’m pretty sure some of them had dispersal areas in the forests too. These roads weren’t motorway width. They were that strange “lane and a half” thing where slower traffic was supposed to pull over onto the half hard shoulder to let faster traffic through. The sort of thing that works in Scandinavia but would cause frustration and heartache over here 🙂

Not entirely or even a wee bit sure about the factual integrity of this but, the base at Macrihanish may have been used as a base for long range spy planes at the height of the cold war. It boasted one of the longest runways in Europe I think.

Even more intriguing, well for me anyway is that the mythical Aurora had been spotted in the area around that time.

I used to change the batteries on the out of band signalling systems for the alarms in my local area when I was a field engineer in the 80’s. Had a tour of the nuclear bunkers under Manchester City Centre in the early 90’s just after the last trunk network equipment had been decommissioned in there, but all the rest areas were as they were from the height of the cold war, miles n miles of tunnels, artesian wells, multiple generators etc..

Someone mention TSR2 it’s bloody huge but with a tiny wingspan.

loving this thread.
My dad always said that the fox and grapes pub on the A64 near leeds/york was part of the nuclear network, either for coms or near a bunker. Never believed him as a kid, but the location is perfect for something!

Given the, ahem, resilience to attack, that was built in to Millgarth police station that may be a possibility.

I seem to recall the post office/telecom building on the A61 has a bunker, along with the UKWMO group HQ by LB Airport – I also seem to remember that war plan UK listed a rather large home office store of riot equipment (shields, helmets, CS gas etc) being stored up at the airport too.

Lotta civ defence bunkers were under exchanges, can remember refitting one in the early 80’s with a brand new Strowger exchange, all electro-mechanical stuff so more likely to survive an EMP. It’s all now toilets for a bar. Now this place is even more interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/northeastwales/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8077000/8077550.stm

Massive chemical weapons place and did some research on nuclear weapons.

The Golden Rule, pub in Dagnall Buckinghamshire had an ominous grey box on the wall with a speaker.The landlord showed me the accompanying information papers detailing what the communications would be, at a given number of minutes before the expected strike, in the event of a nuclear attack.

It was very creepy indeed.

There was a field of ariels a mile or two up the road, some with exceptionally long dipoles, witha designation as an RAF base. A small block house on the surface with no windows was the only building.

And worst of all mobile phones lost all signal withint about a mile of the place.

I used to be right into planes and stuff in my early teens during the mid 80s..
I remember reading a rather long article about the Harriers.. If it all kicked off but stayed conventional it was basically going to be a giant tank battle in central Europe. The Harrier was to be utilised in a close support role operating in small units of two or three planes dispersed out to forrest clearings, autobahn underpasses and the like to escape detection and aid survival rates.. They also planned on using them in the UK should the Ruskis manage to invade us in order to fight a campaign of resistance.. I seem to recall them operating from large supermarkets that had had the fascias removed so they could take off and land in the car parks but hide from reconnaissance within the building itself..
Scary stuff but interesting!

I think I read that same article. And, hmm, I think it was in Warlord

Operation Skyshield- Vulcans get through US NORAD defences to bomb New York.

I worked on a hospital refit where they had fully removable walls so they could create super wards for all the injured in the event of a nearby (ish) nuclear strike. When I asked if they had a bunker I was met with a wall of silence.

I also have a friend who’s father is (was) on the list of aftermath residents, who have important skills to rebuild society after the Armageddon. As mentioned previously his family where also not included.

I hope they have kept or do keep a few of these things secret – did anyone see the china day celebrations / big nuke parade a couple of years ago…

Not hardware but I’ve always found number stations interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_Bw4aYQck[/video]