Women and men compete both together (ie mixed crews) and against each other in Ocean yacht racing.
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In What Sports do Men & Women Compete Equally?
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Posted 6 months ago #
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If the average speed of of the females is considerably slower, theres probably some statistic like 2 standard deviations difference from the males then they need to be classed separately.
She finished the Ironman World Champs just under an hour behind the winning man, so just over 10% slower, but still ahead of a lot of the men. There are similar margins in plenty of other sports.
I don't think it's a case of being within x distance of the men, they're just separate, full stop. Casta Samenya (sp?) may look like a man, but she's not been that dominant.
Should Usain Bolt have his own category altogether? As he's better than all the other men? Sebastian Loeb? Sebastian Vettel? Roger Federer?
Posted 6 months ago # -
i will go out on a limb and say it was humour.
however PC we may wish to be men are physcially stronger /bigger whatever than women.
I am not sure if men always out perform women in skill based sports though.
What about Curling?
Bowls
Dancing?
Gymnastics - they dont compete side by side but are they better?
Diving?? no ideaPosted 6 months ago # -
Gymnastics they do different events though don't they? Men don't do the dancey floor stuff, women don't do the rings.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Golf?
Nope.
Different competitions, different tees, different governing bodies. Different class as well, a few of the very best women over the years have tried to compete with the men and never gotten close to even the journeyman pros, let alone the best.At an amateur level you can compete with women, but only in specific mixed comps, and you'll still be playing off different tees.
Posted 6 months ago # -
"Chrissie is ridiculously good, but women and men don't compete directly in Ironman, there are mens and womens categories. That she is so good that she is faster than most of the male competitors doesn't change that."
Sorry disagree
As is your right. You'll be wrong though.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Should Usain Bolt have his own category altogether? As he's better than all the other men? Sebastian Loeb? Sebastian Vettel? Roger Federer?
They all ready do, most of us mortals with more average physical attributes just turn up for a gorrick once in a while or a friendly 5 a side.
Posted 6 months ago # -
For me the only 'proper' sport they really compete fully against us would be the equestrian ones, especially Eventing.
My wife does this, scares the crap outta me...
Posted 6 months ago # -
They all ready do, most of us mortals with more average physical attributes just turn up for a gorrick once in a while or a friendly 5 a side.
No, but you were saying that a (significantly) above average woman should be classified separately from the others. Shouldn't the same be the case with men? I'm not comparing Jim down the pub to Wayne Rooney, I mean Vettel vs the rest of the F1 field. It'd be more interesting if he (or rather his car) wasn't there.
Posted 6 months ago # -
For me the only 'proper' sport they really compete fully against us would be the equestrian ones, especially Eventing.
Horse Trials is rubbish though - not a single back-hop or 360 in sight...
Posted 6 months ago # -
I used to do a lot of target rifle shooting. Ladies often win the events there.
I believe the olympics is separated into m/f which seems a bit daft as there is really no reason why men and women shouldn't compete shoulder to shoulder.Posted 6 months ago # -
the queens prize is mixed isnt it NRTom?
Posted 6 months ago # -
“As is your right. You'll be wrong though. “
How so?
She raced the same course at the same time. Overtaking and beating x number of men as she did so.
How has she not competed against them and come 6th/5th whatever it was.
And as she went past those fellas she beat, I bet each and every one of them thought/said to themselves.... Bollox just dropped a place... and then checked her bum out.
Posted 6 months ago # -
I bet each and every one of them thought, Bollox just dropped a place.
No they didnt, because theyre not competing in the same race.
OTOH they would have thought "Bollox, just got chicked!"
Posted 6 months ago # -
"No they didnt, because theyre not competing in the same race."
I doubt that very much.
All I can say is when I'm racing, which is very much in the middle of the pack, I dont want ANYONE coming past.
Posted 6 months ago # -
How so?
She raced the same course at the same time. Overtaking and beating x number of men as she did so.
How has she not competed against them and come 6th/5th whatever it was.
And as she went past those fellas she beat, I bet each and every one of them thought, Bollox just dropped a place.
Because they're not racing against her... There may be a big list of results lumping all the categories together, but they're not all competing aginst each other - that's why there's a 'category' column... It's no different to any event which has a big list of results - again look at a distance/time based MTB event.
As has been said, she's a superb athlete (although I reckon Julie Dibens could have her) but she isn't as good as the top men, and she doens't race them.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Also don't the Male and female competitors start in different waves?
Posted 6 months ago # -
Depends on the event, but yes at many top level ones they will do.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Stoner - aye the Queen's isn't separated. My friend Jo won it in 2000. She was the second lass ever to win it, and it's been going since 1860! Surprised there haven't been more to be honest.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Guess I not explaining my thinking very well
Sorry last time I'll post (because I'm boring myself now)
I struggle to beleive any Elite or indeed amateur racer is happy to see someone go past them when on the same course at the same time.
So while technical she may not be competing against the men. To her, to them and the wider watching world she HAS beaten them. And if you have beaten someone surely you must have been competing with them on an equal basis.
Posted 6 months ago # -
So, as others have said, yes in the sense of competing at the same time and the same place, they are competing. But not from an actual competitive perspective. And she's famous for being 4 times Ironman World Champion, that excludes men, so no, to the "wider watching world" she doesn't race against them, I've never heard her reported as being 28th in the World Champs...
If I'm in a race and overtake a woman I don't think "wehay, gained a place", I think "there's someone I'm not racing". I don't quote race results based on everyone who competed - just those in my own race.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Id disagree ro5ey.
A competitor with a race plan for example will be running their race specifically against the course and the known competitors in their class, not against all other competitors in the event. This is especially true over a marathon distance where you might well be happy to be overtaken early on because you're running to your race plan and expect to haul back the place later maybe with even splits or neg splits.
Posted 6 months ago # -
This is especially true over a marathon distance
Even more so in multi-sport events...
Posted 6 months ago # -
I understand your logic Ro5ey, and yes she has "beaten" them. But she wasn't competing against them as Triathlon remains a sport segregated by gender.
And for good reason - she is an outstanding once in a generation athlete, but against the men she is an also ran, and that wouldn't be right.Posted 6 months ago # -
Same as Paula Radcliffe - she was (still is?) the fastest Brit over the marathon but she doesn't compete directly with men.
The fastest Britain is Steve Jones, 2:07,13. Radcliffe did beat all the British men one year in the London Marathon which may be what you meant.
You cant enter "open" if you are classed as Vet by british athletics.
Remember the Vet class is a "handicap" compensator. If you dont need the handicap the automatic assumption should be that youve competed at the open level.
There's also usually a rule that you only win one "prize". Its the prize ranking that I object to.
You can still simply not tick the box on the form that says you are a Vet however there is little incentive. Most organisers allow you to choose the best prize. I finished in the prizes overall in a 5m road race but was also first Vet. They let me choose the best, which was nice of them!
Posted 6 months ago # -
I struggle to beleive any Elite or indeed amateur racer is happy to see someone go past them when on the same course at the same time.
You have to be realistic and its a waste of enery fighting battles you cant win. When I was younger my aim was to be at the front or as near as I could possibly get. I am in the V45 age group now so I have to be realistic (although high placed finishes are not out of the question) I have to be aware of whos around me and try to win my category if possible.
Posted 6 months ago # -
and extending the MTB analogy - if you were competing in the solo 24hr SS class, would you really care if you were overtaken by a geared fresh-as-a-daisy team rider?
Posted 6 months ago # -
Has nobody mentioned water sports yet.?
Posted 6 months ago # -
Surely that's generally between consenting members of the opposite sex, although I didn't realise it was that sort of discussion
Posted 6 months ago #
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