So, as usual the Trooping The Colour Flypast passed directly over Feet towers (it’s pretty cool having your own private flypast 😉 )

I looked up the NOTAM in advance to check what time to loiter outside with the camera. The NOTAM said the Red Arrows would pass over the town I live in at 12:58. At precisely 12:58 they did! Very impressive, especially considering the high winds today

TTCFP11 by gary_foulger, on Flickr

Few more pics here if you’re interested (quality not good – rubbish skies today 🙁 )

The Red Arrows are a national treasure. They never fail to impress me 😀

Not that impressive, just ordinary professionalism. Arriving on time’s one of the most fundamental skills of a military pilot/navigator.

Oops, forgot to put the link in!

Yes, professional, but still impressive to me

I’d of thought that being punctual was among the least impressive things those pilots do.

Arriving on time’s one of the most fundamental skills of a military pilot/navigator.

IME military aircraft were often way off ETA. Of course things might have changed in recent years, although it would surprise me if it’s changed that much.

Arriving on time’s one of the most fundamental skills of a military pilot/navigator.

Shows how little you know, if the RAF got you to your destination within 24 hrs of the stated time they reckoned it was alright!

edit: I have nothing but respect for the Red Arrows & their flying, some of the best pilots in the World IMO.

Shows how little you know, if the RAF got you to your destination within 24 hrs of the stated time they reckoned it was alright!

Well then, we’d best put it down to some outrageously unlikely fluke that all the elements of the flypast managed to arrive on the same day.

Private airshows do have to pay for the Red Arrows, so as a service being paid for one would hope they were timely!

Ernie,

I’d like to know what your experience is. The military pride themselves (and for a long time have done so) on the ability to accurately deliver a task to specific timings. It’s incredibly important in warfare.

With a map, compass and stopwatch, a Time on Target (TOT) could be made within five seconds by most qualified crews. These skills are drilled into trainees prior to converting to their frontline types.

Those skills haven’t changed much since WW2!! They’re as valid now as they were then.

Nowadays, however, on your frontline type you can use GPS and all manner of kit to assist in a good TOT.

If you’re referring to route ops, then crews try to get to destination BEFORE the scheduled time of arrival unless there is a airfield restriction precluding that. Any delay will be due to technical (some of the air transport fleet are about 40 years old and their reliability reflects this; other newer types have been thrashed to bits and sadly are struggling too), loading, weather or ATC issues and normally apparent as a delayed take-off. Sometimes scheduled arrival times don’t reflect the weather of the day, for instance a strong headwind may have a huge effect on timing which may not be accounted for in the published schedule. Once you’ve done your preflight planning, you’ll know a good ETA.

Hope that clarifies things.

Watched their display in Bristol last night from my bedroom window, they were awesome as usual.

Ernie,

I’d like to know what your experience is

Deployment on a military airfield.

Somewhat limited then!

Not really, I dealt with arrivals. And departures. On the runway.

The missus is in the RAF and has to be 5 minutes early for everything -even when she is working shifts in the NHS. Never on time with my morning coffee, mind.

IME military aircraft were often way off ETA.

ETA and TOT are very different things. RAF =/= airline, so there are many unique things that come in to play to mess with arrival and departure times, particularly the decrepid air transport fleet.

We had our won private red arrows flypast last weekend over Exmoor, low and slow. Fills me with pride.

We had a visit too – at the airshow at the end of the garden this afternoon…

If it’s of any interest, the Wing Commander of the Red Arrows (Red 11) lives in our village and regularly comes out mountain biking with us on his very nice Anthem….

Not really, I dealt with arrivals. And departures. On the runway.

As said before, quite limited then. I doubt changes to ETA were due to an ability to navigate adequately!!!

There is a bit more to aviation than that! But I guess you don’t know what you don’t know. Unless you were the common denominator and the reason for the errors….

As said before, quite limited then!

Not limited at all with respect to my comment. Perhaps you need to be reminded of what it was : “IME military aircraft were often way off ETA”

My day often started with the first arrival/departure and ended with the last arrival/departure. During that time I/we were constantly updated with the latest ETA (pre-internet so by phone) In other words the ETA sometimes changed.

Your implication was that military aircraft couldn’t keep to an ETA, which is frankly horseshit.

An ETA will vary from the scheduled arrival due to the aforementioned factors. It’s also an Estimate. If the arrival is for a route task, it’ll be fairly accurate once published by the crew. For a training sortie, which can be far more fluid, the crew may extend the sortie, provided they’re in touch with ATC so to avoid overdue action. They’ll also update their ETA.

I’m not sure you were privy to the full picture in your previous role and you probably didn’t need to be, however your original statement is misleading and wrong when given the topic discussed was with reference to ability to achieve accurate timings.

Stop digging yourself a hole!

An ETA will vary from the scheduled arrival due to the aforementioned factors. It’s also an Estimate

So what’s your problem then ?

Stop digging yourself a hole!

What hole ? My comment stands : “IME military aircraft were often way off ETA”. Simple as that. Although for reasons best known to you, you appear to want to suggest that I have said something more than just that……perhaps to ‘win’ an argument ?

Nope, you’re just plain wrong. “Way off ETA”?? Which ETA? Pre-departure or in-flight? Sortie profile? Weather conditions? Inability to maintain ETA! Give us a break!! 🙄

Refer to my previous posts for explanations if you can pull your head out of your rectum.

This has to be one of the most anal arguments yet. Hats off to you 🙄

FWIW, the Red Arrows to me are one of the few remaining things that are truly GREAT about GREAT Britain.

(Though this being STW, I’m sure someone will now moan about my “jingoistic” attitude…)

Nope, you’re just plain wrong.

I have pointed out that ETAs aren’t set in stone, you don’t dispute that pointing out, unsurprisingly, that the ETA is an estimate, I can’t see what you’re actually disagreeing with. And yet you keep coming back telling me that what I personally experienced was wrong. As far as I can figure out you just want to argue with me, and you’re not really fussed about the actual detail – just as long as you have an argument with me.

Presumably you think that if you keep having a pop at me eventually I will say something which you can actually disagree with ?

<Sighs>

Ernie, your first post implied the British mil were poor timekeepers. I say that’s wrong. And I’m extremely qualified to say so. There is no argument, merely pointing out your confusion with ETA and timekeeping. I would respectfully ask you to acknowledge your implication we can’t keep time was made in error.

To help you see the point, I’ve made numerous fly pasts accurate to the second and countless operational tasks performed to the second. I probably have never landed on time to the second. Or minute. But there is no error in my timekeeping (normally!!!).

Ernie, your first post implied the British mil were poor timekeepers.

WTF ? How the **** did you come to that conclusion ?

BTW I have no experience of the British military other than a few arrivals at RAF Northolt. I’m sure the British military are excellent timekeepers 🙂

Arriving on time’s one of the most fundamental skills of a military pilot/navigator.

IME military aircraft were often way off ETA. Of course things might have changed in recent years, although it would surprise me if it’s changed that much

Any questions?!

Any questions?

Yeah, what’s the problem ?

Nowhere have I suggested a lack of skill.

Give it up and get some sleep. Goodnight.

Goodnight. I hope you’re not too disappointed by the fact that you never got to find anything to disagree with me over ? 😐

If it’s of any interest, the Wing Commander of the Red Arrows (Red 11) lives in our village and regularly comes out mountain biking with us on his very nice Anthem….

I love stuff like that.

I was lucky enough to meet the ‘red arrows’ pilots many years ago, after sister and I were invited to the Jersey Aero club. Being young and shy at the time, I was in awe of them and didn’t know what to say, however they certainly know how to have a good time.

Looking forward to Farnborough air show next month.

Was lucky enough to have a backseat ride with them once.

Had to turn the mic off for the duration as I was laughing so much. Was great fun!