Good response! I like your writing style, very engaging.
I'm interested that you are prepared to die for this system, why?
Chat Forum
Im going to Afghanistan 3 times this year!!!
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Posted 4 months ago #
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'The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants' - Thomas Jefferson 1787. Individual self-determination is best served by liberal democracies where there are free and fair elections, universal franchise and where individuals and minorities are protected by the rule of law. It's not perfect, but the alternatives are worse. Theocracy, absolute monarchy, communism, and oligarchy don't have a better track record. Sadly, liberal democracy needs continuous protection against ideologies that will exploit our civil liberties with the ultimate intent to restrict them. If we stand idly by and fail to to defend our freedoms we could sleep walk into a tyranny. As Benjamin Franklin said, 'Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety , deserve neither Liberty nor Safety'. Some things are worth fighting for.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Individual self-determination is best served by liberal democracies where there are free and fair elections, universal franchise and where individuals and minorities are protected by the rule of law
Lovely. These aren't characteristics of real 'liberal democracies' though. What should we the people do if we suspect that we're being used?
Sadly, liberal democracy needs continuous protection against ideologies that will exploit our civil liberties with the ultimate intent to restrict them.
This rather contradicts the protection of individuals and minorities does it not? Also it seems to give the green light to kill families using drone aircraft because there is a suspicion that someone we think is a threat might also be at the party. I'm smelling a rat or two. Who decides who's a threat? What criteria do they use. WMD?
I note that you've quoted a couple of venerable Americans (when we were talking about British stuff) which is cool, care to comment in US foreign policy in the region, and how it differs from ours? It's my contention that modern, western democracy is distanced from it's origin. And from it's ethics.
Posted 4 months ago # -
What would you consider are the characteristics of real liberal democracies? I'm also interested to read why you think liberal democracies have lost their ways.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Invade a country, tell them how they should think and tell them there's dollars available if they agree to toe a foreign government(s) line.
That's a very particular type of Western Democracy.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Hora - you've got it in one. All states are self serving by definition as they have a responsibility to place the needs of their own people above those of others.
Posted 4 months ago # -
What would you consider are the characteristics of real liberal democracies? I'm also interested to read why you think liberal democracies have lost their ways.
Actually Hora has it pretty much nailed on.
The real characteristics of liberal democracies? The protection of the minority and the individual superseded by the accumulation and protection of wealth. We are blinded by comfort and money (me included). And totally willing to support those who keep it easy for us, even at the expense of others.
I rather suspect that Franklin & Jefferson had something different in mind...
There is a better, more ethical, more integrated and ultimately fairer way to exist. We wont be as rich though which is a bit of a problem.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Franklin and Jefferson were wealthy slave owners...
Of course capitalism is the ultimate protection of individual and minority rights to accumulate wealth - the principle of personal property.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Franklin and Jefferson were wealthy slave owners...
How is that relevant to your argument?
Of course capitalism is the ultimate protection of individual and minority rights to accumulate wealth - the principle of personal property.
So liberal democracy IS capitalism?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Life is full of irony and contradictions. The Founding Fathers were rascists. The Greeks practised apartheid. Liberal Democracy is inextricably linked to capitalism.
I agree that we need a more ethical society and that unbridled greed has undermined social cohesion. I'm concerned that the rich will become richer while the poor get poorer until the ideas of Marx and Lenin regain traction. I want evolution, not revolution.
Posted 4 months ago # -
In a way I wish I was in your position, Iv'e got to get through my A Levels and 5-7 years in university before I can even begin in the Army so I envy the opportunity but I understand how your wife would feel. Main thing is come back in one piece and enjoy it
Posted 4 months ago # -
OP.. Good call chum, stay safe, keep your head down and don't do any more volunteering out there.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Life is full of irony and contradictions
Undoubtedly. It seems unfair that people starve to death, are denied basic sanitation and watch a select few get richer as a result of them.
Still it's over there not over here.
Posted 4 months ago # -
OP - keep safe. Thanks.
yossarian - good to chat. Lets's do it again.*wonders off to prep bike for epic session at GT*
Posted 4 months ago # -
redfordrider (and yossarian) please post more like this...I really enjoyed reading your posts and it makes a refreshing change from the normal stw tit for tat rant. Its clear that you were both actually listening to each other.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Redfordrider - likewise fella
Posted 4 months ago # -
I've enjoyed reading this post as well.
Redfordrider: I'd very much like to read your lecture after you've given it, if that's possible. My emails in my profile.
Being from that part of the world (well my parents) I'm very interested in all points of view on the future of south Asia.
Posted 4 months ago # -
As CHB said above, it's actually nice to see some educated discussion on here instead of resulting to insults and ranting. Nice one. More please!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Despite all the
gobshitesopinions above I wish you all the luck you need and God speed you back to those who love you.Stay safe.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It's difficult to see how Muslim beliefs can be reconciled with a multitheistic culture which has produced the karma sutra.
Says who? The Ottoman Empire, for example, had a multitheistic culture (if by that you mean a culture in which many faiths existed) and Moorish occupation of Spain was not terrible for the Jews and Christians there too.Posted 4 months ago # -
1)Extremist mass murderers already do possess Nuclear Weapons,ie Israel and the USA.
2)Sure ly Renton and the invader/occupiers are the "terrorists".Our soon to be new best mates, the Taliban,are the resistance.
3)Britain divided all its former colonies on leaving.With the terrible consequences we see today.Posted 4 months ago # -
Britain divided all its former colonies on leaving.
Rubbish. Go away and have a think about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Former_British_coloniesPosted 4 months ago # -
My spidery sensors are picking up Elfin in this thread. I'm sure of it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
*fires up the STW plugin*
Posted 4 months ago # -
Good morning all.
Konabunny - You make a good point. There are indeed many historical examples where Muslims have coexisted peacefully with Jews and Christians. This is not surprising. Jews and Christians are accorded special status in the Holy Koran as 'People of the Book'. All three religions are monotheistic and recognise the Old Testament prophets. According to the Holy Koran, the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) met to pray with Jesus, Abraham and Moses on his Night Journey via Jerusalem. Indeed, the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) personally made an alliance with the Jews in Arabia...unfortunately, things did not work out in the end. During the time of the Caliphs and the Ottoman Empire, Jews and Christians were allowed to live in Muslim lands, but were subject to a special punitive tax. However, we must not take this too far and forget that the Ottomans were responsible for the genocide of the Armenians - a very sensitive subject for Turks today. Also, Jews and Christians living in the Ottoman Empire were subject to Sharia law. Officially, Jews and Christians were required to convert to Islam which is why most hid their faith in public - as many Jews and Christians living in Muslim states today still do. This is hardly the sort of tolerance that we should all hope for. Christians are often tolerated in Muslim societies until they begin to proselytise - seek converts to their faith. Preaching the Gospel and converting non-believers to Christianity is a requirement of the religion. Unfortunately, the punishment for Muslims who convert are very severe - sometimes, death. This also falls short of the tolerance required for a true multicultural society.
And now the Hindus... Islam and polytheism are not easy bed fellows. Although the Rig Veda introduces 33 principles deities , some Hindus believe that over 300 million gods and goddesses exist. Furthermore, Hindu culture is much more permissive and in many ways less restrictive than Islam. One only has to go to the British Museum to compare the beautiful geometric patterns of Islamic art with the full size sculptures of nude women in provocative poses to appreciate how different these societies are from each other. This of course does not stop millions of Muslims world-wide watching Bollywood films via their satellite dishes.
There is another thing which many Muslims find even harder to tolerate... atheism. But that's a story for another time.
Posted 4 months ago # -
monkeycmoneydo -
1. The AK47 is the true weapon of mass destruction.
2. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's complex.
3. Actually, the US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the Rep of Ireland, Hong Kong, are doing OK. Many problems in the former colonies preceded the arrival of the British and are still there 60 years after they left.Posted 4 months ago # -
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's complex.
There's nothing worse than a cliche that isn't even true.Posted 4 months ago # -
Probably didn't come out in my earlier post, but come back safe and sound, keep your head down fellah. Politics is bollox, but someone has to clean up the mess....
Posted 4 months ago # -
Konabuddy - Nelson Mandela: Terrorist or Freedom Fighter?
Some cliches are axiomatic.
Posted 4 months ago # -
The AK47 is the true weapon of mass destruction.
No it isn't. A WMD is a like a card trick, a feint. It doesn't need to exist in 3 dimensions to be effective. You can achieve great and terrible things if your enemy thinks you have one and you can do great and terrible things if you can make people believe your enemy has one. Club WMD is exclusive and you need an invite (like google +), and tacit approval. Otherwise you can expect your country's scientists to have ALL KINDS OF ACCIDENTS.
A machine gun is specific. If I shoot your children with it, it's because I mean to. There is no mass destruction involved. It's precise, deliberate and intentional.
A cluster bomb however....or an airstrike....or perhaps trade sanctions....
Posted 4 months ago # -
About 250,000 civilians died in Hiroshima and Nagaski. Between 300,000 - 500,000 people are killed every year by small arms. http://www.globalissues.org/article/78/small-arms-they-cause-90-of-civilian-casualties
We would save more lives by un-inventing the AK 47 than nuclear weapons.
Posted 4 months ago # -
But we would do more to unseat the inappropriate balance of power and the few who wield it by uninventing nuclear weapons.
Those stats are meaningless. One is a street level solution, the other requires state level intervention....or a good lobbyist.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Nearly 40 million people have died in conventional conflicts since WWII. Not one was killed by a nuclear weapon. Millions live under the rule of tyrants as Mao said, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Small arms allow illegitimate governments to remain in power. They empower terrorists, criminals and gangsters.
Posted 4 months ago # -
All the major political parties in the uk are the same when it comes to licking america's arse. We do everything they want. America and the CIA are the biggest terrorists the world has ever known. 1 million people marched against the war in Iraq. What did it change? So there is no point in voting for change. We will change nothing in Afganistan but as long as america gets the oil that's all that counts. Bombing villages from B52's is not the way to "win hearts and minds"
Posted 4 months ago # -
Small arms allow illegitimate governments to remain in power. They empower terrorists, criminals and gangsters.
No! Tacit western support, or indifference allow illegitimate governments to remain. Our interference isn't based on some moral code, merely on what's good for the goose.
I'm unsure as to the point you are making about guns. What is it's purpose in the context of the thread?
(it's very early in the morning and I'm extremely tired, so forgive me if it's obvious
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Posted 3 months ago #
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