Bloody dirt jumps up the local woods. The FC don't own the woods so won't work with people or give permission for people to build stuff or even make trails. Still the local jump bunnies insist on building ramps and digging holes. Every so often the FC come along and level the sites. The back end of last summer the site had become quite big and the FC levelled it. This time it was too dusty to rebuild.

Last Saturday the jumps reappeared and they have been levelled already!

Grrr.

is this Lordswood?

Wee guys building some jumps is to be expected. As is the FC flattening them. Could be worse, they could be hanging out on the streets terrorising old ladies etc.
Annoying if they are "improving" the original trails though.

Whats the problem really?

Let them carry on, they will be gutted when they get flattened, they will put so many hours into building them and then someone who RIDES A BIKE comes along and complains, come on, you sound like a right grumpy old man.

You would have something to say if they were terrorising old people and breaking into cars, not playing in the woods.

I'm not happy with the idea that lifes choice is terrorising old ladies or jump building

I can't comment on the area where you are

In Ampthill we have a Heath. One untidy corner is used for jumps. Its good for people to have some where to play.

But the Heath is a very important conservation area so yes I've pushed over jumps in other places. The Heath can't just beome a scrubbed bear Mountain Bike area

The only people I've ever seeen whipping throught the Heather are middle age men

I don't mind people building stuff like jumps and the like if it's an improvemnet on what was there before (i.e. on some disused industrial or brownfield site) but considering there's very little space left for wildlife, native trees etc then I think we should try and make as little impact as possible on sensitive areas of woodland. The problem where I live is that all the local woods get torn up by dicks on motorbikes or gangs of kids getting pissed up during the warmer months (and leaving all their rubbish/ bottles/ tents etc. People on bikes don't tend to cause any noticable damage appart from a few tyre marks in the mud.

And people on bikes cause fractional amounts of damage compared to forestry logging operations, I'm still mourning the decimation of my night ride route.

a scrubbed bear Mountain Bike area

i love the image this brings to mind… bears on bikes. very clean bears too.

But the Heath is a very important conservation area so yes I've pushed over jumps in other places.

You miserable git! it's not your responsibility to level them, so leave them alone. If it's a very important conservation area I assume you aren't riding your bike there either?

We've got a small piece of land where building seems to be tolerated. A couple of 6 foot kickers have just gone up though, so that might change. After watching a mate jump through hoops for 3 years to get nowhere, illegal is where it's at imo.

IMO that spot in LW is too close to one of the main fireroads through the centre, hence it gets spotted easily and the FC can get the kit in to level it easy enough. It would be better to work on some of the more secluded spots which are only really frequented by bikers and the occasional dog walker.

Out of sight out of mind….

ampthill – Just be sure none of the people who've built the jumps see you poking your unwelcome nose in.
If theres one way to properly piss off trailbuilders…

Bland – The problem is I put about 3 hours of shovel work building the jumps last Saturday and didn't get a chance to ride them as I was on my fixie at the time.

Agree about Wonderland being close to the fire road but at least if the FC are aware of that they don't look too much for other stuff.

Also I like the ease of access for ambulances when I am learning to jump again.

Buil,ding jumps on someone elses land without permission is simply wrong. Can I come and build some in your garden please?

Its the sort of thing that really annoys me. What gives you the right to build jumps on someones land? You give MTBers a bad name doing it

TJ – I think youre asking the wrong people if youre trying to make a point. Come round anytime and build some in mine!

Too right TJ, look at these irresponsible young ASBO-monkeys for an example of what you're talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V54LkvkRZWw

Can I come and build some in your garden please?

You are welcome to try TJ, and I'd love to see you ride them 🙂 I live in a second floor flat, btw…

Lets get this in proportion then. I'm prepared to allow an ant to build a litle house, say about 3mm square on my balcony. Then I can build a few jumps on some unused FC land, of which they manage almost 8000 square km on our behalf. Seems about right to me.

You give MTBers a bad name doing it

Not true either, IME. A few local kids have had fun on those jumps. And a couple who came through with a little lad on a BMX seemed pleased enough. Sadly, he binned it on a double 🙁 In fact, once the police stopped by inquiring what a few lads with shovels were doing in the woods 🙂 They explained that they had no problem at all with what was being done, but for insurance purposes etc. it's better to have landowners permission.

TJ – It is in the middle of a large area of woodlands. It does not inconvenience any other wood land users. The FC guy said he was happy for it to be there but would level it within 30 days of any complaint coming in.

When they were logging the area they made a point of driving their kit around the jump site even though the direct route was through it. The problem is not the FC and I have no problem with the FC. #The problem is people walking their wildlife scaring sh1t factories being upset by other people using 'their' land.

Do you have permission to build? No. In that case you are in the wrong.

Its not rocket science.

Rich Penny

I've ridden over Ampthill Heath once, on the Bridle Way. I'm their most days on foot. If you and your friends are riding on the jump spot thats fine, no, I would say good. If my skills improove I might join you.

The jump I pushed over was a pathetic affair built by someone who clearly new less about jumping than me, eg nothing. It was built at the bottom of a small path leading off the concrete topped hill near the rugby club.

If you ride the unofficial jump site I think i did you a favour. If the area of jumps is extented, particulary in a way that increases erosion on the Heather covered areas then I expect tolerance will deccrease.

Do you think we should have jumps and trails all over the Heath? I won't judge you on your answer

Buil,ding jumps on someone elses land without permission is simply wrong. Can I come and build some in your garden please?

Its the sort of thing that really annoys me. What gives you the right to build jumps on someones land? You give MTBers a bad name doing it

Sorry boys, completely agree with TJ. Forestry commission land is not our land, it is pretty much a self sustaining industry. It only gets around £ 10 million a year subsidy from the government. It makes most of it's operating costs back through timber and leisure access. And before anyone moans about the subsidy it doesn't even start to cover the generally free leisure amenities they've put in.

Then I can build a few jumps on some unused FC land

How do you know it's unused land, are you a forestry expert, it may actually be left for a particular wildlife reason. Whether you like it or not due to the barking laws in this country the land owner / occupier becomes liable for you being a d*ck on their land. Someone builds dodgy jumps, someone else has an accident, FC are liable as they didn't clear the jumps away. You ain't going to win. if you really want to make a difference do it properly with permission / support.

I don't mind them doing it but I do hate the mess they leave behind- drink bottles, crisp packets etc etc

Wonderland was awesome – a really great little track, but it's greatness and popularity was its downfall
I admire those who continue to build at Lordswood, if I lived round there I'd be helping out

I am not a lawyer, but…

The problem is that if they don't level jumps that they know about and you go and injure yourself riding on them, the FC are leaving themselves open for you to sue them because they 'let' you build and use jumps on their land.

If they do not takes steps to remove the jumps or warn users of them that they are doing so entirely at their own risk, then in law, the FC could be seen to be condoning the use of the jumps and are therefore liable for any injuries sustained through their use.

It may sound crazy but that's the way it is.

A friend of mine checked this out when his next-door neighbour's son was climbing on his fragile garage roof, access gained over the garden fence. Apparently if the stupid kid fell through the garage roof and injured himself, the neighbour could sue him for not taking enough precautions to ensure that access wasn't possible or that the kid's behaviour was not being condoned

The FC could put up signs to say that the 'facilities' are not provided by the FC and that the FC neither condone their use nor will accept any liability for injury or material loss resulting from their use. That would probably cover their asses. However, I suspect that it is their policy to consider the building and use of jumps on their land as trespass and act accordingly.

Forestry commission land is not our land, it is pretty much a self sustaining industry.

That's incorrect. It IS our land, the FC only manage it on our behalf (and make a tidy profit).

Lordswood???

Is this near to Canterbury in Kent?

lordswood is not owned by the FC and the problem is in the lease from the owners. (chilworth manor i think – anyone know?)

TJ, I am not interested in your opinion. You seem to think some sort of hideous vandalism is being carried out. Incorrect. And that it gives mtbers a bad name. Also incorrect. What's been done has allowed a few members of the local community to enjoy themselves. To no-ones detriment. For me, that is a positive thing.

Do you think we should have jumps and trails all over the Heath?

Sorry if I gave the impression that I know your area, I don't. Basically what you've done is kicked over some kid's bit of fun. Would I build jumps on an SSSI, for example? Of course not. Would I ride there? Probably not Is it my job to destroy any I find? No, and it isn't yours either. On a bigger scale, you might have something to worry about, but a crappy little jump?

How do you know it's unused land

There are signs up saying anyone who uses the land does so at their own risk. It isn't logged, just a small bit of land next to a road. In the past, permission was given to build jumps there.

You ain't going to win

Oh but I am. I am winning by having fun. If the things I've helped to build are knocked down, more will spring up. Not sure why I'm arguing so strenuously, I'm **** rubbish at jumping 🙂

Whether you like it or not….

You know what, I don't like it. So I'll just ignore it then. IIRC the FC would have to have liability insurance anyway, so there is no difference if jumps are built or not. Also, are there any instances of people suing and winning in a similar situation?

Richpenny – that is not the impression the OP gives – he says its in the local woods.

And yes – building jumps without permission is vandalism. and it does give MTbers a bad name – unless it is an appropriate place which this appears not to be from the OP.

Of course it is to others detriment – someone must have complained for the FC to have taken action and the OP compalains about dog walkers complaining about it.

Edit – teh FC have liability insurance? Can I steal your bikes – they are insured – same argument.

Continue to do it – show what an arrogant fool you are.

"take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints ( or tyre tracks)"

I am not the only one who thinks like this as can be seen from the replies from others to this thread

Want to build jumps – get permission or use brownfield / derelict land – not "the local woods" which are a resource for all – many of whom do not want to see illegal jump building and trail cutting.

Rich Penny thanks for your opinions.

I thought you new the situation.

Here it is. The Heath is an SSSI. Its one of the few bits of lowlands heath in the UK. How often do you see Heather in this part of the world, almost never. Its is an important site nationaly for a number of insects and lizards.

The day after I pushed the jump over I told the bloke in charge of the Heaths conservation. Spoilt some kids fun, well maybe but just beacuse its fun doesn't mean its right does it. I think the idea that I had no right to retore the path to its original condition is laughable

At least get a couple of facts right before you call people miserable gits

The only people I've ever seeen whipping throught the Heather are middle age men

Did you push them over?

The day after I pushed the jump over I told the bloke in charge of the Heaths conservation.

Any reason why you didn't just let them deal with it?

Very Funny
What a sanctimonious bunch of old miseries.( I know, I am a sanctimonious old misery)

and it does give MTbers a bad name

As you seem to be ignoring, not in my short experience. What is your experience?

I am not the only one who thinks like this as can be seen from the replies from others to this thread

Correct, you are not the only one. Fortunately there are also lots of people who think like me, and are not interested in interfering for it's own sake.

"take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints ( or tyre tracks)"

The site I'm using is next to a road. It's not in the wilderness, it's a 3 minute ride from the middle of a town.

What is my experience – 40 years of sharing the countryside with other users.

This sort of trail building tars us all with the same brush – same as red light jumpers and so on. Many folk will find it unsightly.

Its 3 mins from the town – a valuable resource for all to share then

I'm not interested in interfering for its own sake – I am interested in maintaining good relationships with all other countryside users – a basic cornerstone of the access rights we enjoy here.

As I said earlier if its a brownfield site / derelict industrial land – that sort of thing then fine. A piece of local woodland is a totally different matter.

Its a question of morals and ethics

You are coming across as miserable gits though tbh.

so if a dog walker fell down a hole on FC land would they be able to sue? I personally dont see the problem if you have a large woods to make one little corner with some jumps in. I would rather see the yoof of today building jumps than shagging each other down the local park listening to Dizzee Rascal and getting smashed on vodka.

The FC has taken over a site near Ringwood where some chaps had built some ridiculous north shore, watchmore woods – the FC knocked the old stuff down and have replaced it with much safer better built stuff with big signs saying 'ride at your own risk'.

I'm sure I've been told in the past the issue with lordswood is because the land is managed by the FC on behalf of the landowner, and therefore they aren't able to promote a biking site like they have at watchmore.

As for jumps being vandalism etc… thats a pretty stupid OTT opinion. Litter is far more of a problem. Get it in perspective we are hardly taking about deforestation….its a small clearing with about 10-15 jumps in the middle of some woodland.

EDIT – 'had' 10-15 jumps.

I'd like to know what the STW editorial teams thoughts are about illegally building on private land without permission, whilst also encouraging others on here to inocently be party to that. Cedric Gillson might be interested to hear their reasoning. 😉

Its 3 mins from the town – a valuable resource for all to share then

Think again, only ever seen a couple of people up there. There are two huge areas of woodland locally where you do see people walking and so on. Why would you go for a walk in a scrubby bit of land next to a road when you could use those. Sorry TJ, I know you want it to be black and white but it isn't.

I am interested in maintaining good relationships with all other countryside users

An honourable position. Not a million miles from my own, believe it or not. I guess I have fond memories of the BMX tracks in my local woods, and don't really see much wrong with that. There are people who'd want bikes banned from the countryside, I'm not interested in good relations with them. As I said, the people we encountered were all positive.