• This topic has 50 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by smurf.
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  • If you were to heat a house "from scratch", how would you do it?
  • footflaps
    Full Member

    Our electricity contract has a maximum draw of 30A. Even my literary genius wife knows that if she has a couple of hob rings on, the oven, the microwave and wants to put the kettle on it’s best to turn one of the other things off first.

    That seems a very European thing, every Ski Chalet I’ve stayed in has a similar system….

    mrben100
    Free Member

    Was an end of lunch type and run.

    Edukator – Primarily i was broadly answering the OP ‘what would I do’

    I’m not professing it’s the best solution and i’m not saying ‘don’t use renewables’, just I would not.

    Fundamentally i would want good fabric insulation values, good airtightness and ventilation strategy – adding renewables to me means designing in ‘potential’ maintenance issues.

    I would want a comfortable property with as little to think about as possible.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    My old combi boiler cost more in maintenance per year than the renewable things have cost in five years. I don’t need a bill from a qualified technician like I did with the gas combi. Count the number of STW threads concerning failed combis, cold combi showers, leaking radiators, radiators not working… .

    Cleaning the wood burner flue is a once-a-year, two-hour job. The PV panels have self-cleaning glass and require a scrub once-a-year to maintain efficiency. The solar thermal panel needs a regular scrub to remove pollen, dust etc. in dry periods.

    mrben100
    Free Member

    To me potential maintenance includes additional penetrations in the fabric of the building, particularly on the roof.

    You confusing running costs with general building maintenance.

    An economically efficient building isn’t necessarily a thermally efficient one.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    The tiles fitted in this part of the world generally last at least 30 years. The steel waterproofing kit and panels will last about the same. The initial “plastic” waterproofing kit failed and was replaced with steel under guarantee – the German plastic failed to cope with the temperature range and expansion/contraction in France. The new kit uses the same steel parts used to cover industrial buildings and has a proven track record. I’m confident.

    The fact the tiled roof needed maintenance was part of the investment decision. The panels only cost 30% more than having the south-facing roof retiled. I sorted the tiles I recovered from the south face and used them to replace the weathered ones on the rest of the house. Win, win, win.

    An economically efficient building isn’t necessarily a thermally efficient one.

    Given that every investment I’ve made to make the building thermally efficient pays for itself in heating costs I disagree.

    Approximate return periods.

    Wood burner – immediate as the combi packed up and the stove was cheaper than a replacement, wood being cheaper than gas per kWh it would have paid for itself on fuel saving alone in around 10 years.
    Roof insulation – first layer: 3 years, second layer; 6 years. third layer and gable ends; 12 years
    PV panels 6.5 years
    More energy efficient oven 10 years
    LED bulbs – variable depending on use
    Wall insulation – around 10 years
    Solar thermal – 11 years
    Floor insulation – harder to calculate (because values for heat loss through floor vary so much) but my lifetime.
    Triple glazing – less than 30 years

    footflaps
    Full Member

    the German plastic failed to cope with the temperature range and expansion/contraction in France

    I think you’ll find it just had the wrong specification of plasticisers in it to cope with the temperature range rather than being ‘German’…

    twinw4ll
    Free Member

    Do not get a woodburner, they are the work of the devil.

    andyl
    Free Member

    On the PV v Solar heating I would probably max out my allowance of PV first and then fit solar heating with what roof space is left. I am a big fan of solar water heating due to the efficiency but due to feed in tariffs and my use of electricity more than hot water I would get the PVs sorted first and then fit the heating in what space is left.

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    Insulation first. How much depends on the existing building fabric. Obviously a complete new build can be done with almost zero heating energy required… an existing 400 year old stone cottage, erm, not so much possibility for improvement.

    Heating:
    none? great
    some? stove in a central location, or maybe ASHP/GSHP
    lots? fairly normal wet setup, UFH preferably. I like fires, so it’d be nice to have a big multifuel stove in a living space, linked up with a regular timed automatic boiler, but not necessary.

    DrP
    Full Member

    Plenty of interesting points, ta.

    It’s a 60 year old place, but needs a bit of input.
    I just thought that whilst I had the empty place to bits (I’ve got a few months overlap before we move in) I’d see what I could do…

    I think a woodburner will be fitted – just cos they look great are a nice fire is nice!!

    DrP

    smurf
    Free Member

    I’ve got a 6 year old house. It’s got underfloor heating:

    + creates a lovely “warm all over the house” feeling – no hot spots / cold spots
    + Nice under your feet
    + provides a stable all day level of comfort – we find it works best with it coming on and off a few times a day to sort of “top up” the heat in the floor

    – Can be expensive if you have it on constantly
    – Can take a while for it to deal with quick changes in outdoor temperature e.g. come back from holiday, house is v cold…it can take a day or 2 to get back up to temp again
    – It’s more expensive / complicated than a regular radiator system

    On balance, I’d miss it if we moved.

    I’ve also got 2 water heating solar panels. These are great – lots of hot water on sunny days and it’s effectively free hot water as you don’t need the boiler on anywhere as much. Of course, you do need sunshine!

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