Would you just roll off the front or back? Clearly the actual resistance wouldn’t change (or would it?).

saw this, thought of running machines and then rollers…

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/228192-wahoos-new-kickr-climb-simulates-hills-indoor-training

You would pop off the back of the rollers and have a top tube to groin impact, then end up laying on the floor.

It might work if just the front roller moved up and down leaving the rear 2 both level to the ground.

the double roller on the back would have to be wider to hold the wheel in which would increase friction and mobility.

what would happen?

Yet another opportunity to have to explain to someone that you fell of your bike in the kitchen.

You wouldn’t take off. 😉

On a running machine the effect is that your front foot lands higher than the place it lost contact with (I think) so that’s what makes your muscles feel like you’re climbing. I can’t conceive of the same effect on rollers as nothing is being lifted up. Only difference I suppose would be body position would be a little different?

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Wouldn’t make a difference. If you stopped pedalling, you’d not roll backwards.

Surely it won’t actually simulate the effect of going up hill, since you’re staying in one place.

All it does is alter the angle of your bike.

These real grade changes create a more immersive virtual riding experience while also engaging climbing muscles and improving pedalling technique to enable the rider to become a more efficient and powerful climber

Fools and their money, etc, etc.

Surely it won’t actually simulate the effect of going up hill, since you’re staying in one place.

All it does is alter the angle of your bike.

Presumably resistance will increase alongside the front forks being hoicked up.

I do wonder whether it will create any unusual stresses on the fork compared to actual riding, though.

Yes, that machine will increase resistance too I’m sure.

The Kickr will increase resistance in the same way it already does.

I don’t believe raising the fork will have much benefit for real climbing training though.

It wouldn’t make any difference you’re not actually doing any more work against gravity, just changing the angle you are at relative to the ground.
Because they’re rollers you’re not doing any more work (assuming they don’t have variable resistance).

With rollers, the same thing would happen as with everything else, I’d fall off

I don’t believe raising the fork will have much benefit for real climbing training though.

no, DC Rainmaker says as much in his recent preview.

I bet it’s a laugh though! I have the Tacx trainer that simulates downhills, cobbles, etc; definitely makes turbo sessions more fun. This thing looks great, however it’s £450+ and only compatible with brand new (unreleased?) Kickr trainers so I’ll be watching with interest but not investing right now!

Yes, that machine will increase resistance too I’m sure.

This is just to replace the front wheel, it’s independent of the trainer that the back wheel goes into (but yes, that will do resistance).

I do wonder whether it will create any unusual stresses on the fork compared to actual riding, though.

according to the DCR preview this is only compatible with their brand-new trainers which have been re-designed to take stresses on the back end into account. From the pics it looks like the front will pivot slightly about a point rather than being fixed totally solidly so hopefully not too much extra stress on the fork.

Would it change if you were cycling on a running machine pointed up? i.e. a travellator type thing

For some reason I’m thinking that it would feel harder (because if you stopped riding and it stopped moving you’d still roll backwards)

gradient changes the effective geometry of the bike, the steeper it gets the slacker the geometry. I have found raising the front wheel to simulate climbing increased the perceived effort to produce the same power.

Would it change if you were cycling on a running machine pointed up? i.e. a travellator type thing

For some reason I’m thinking that it would feel harder (because if you stopped riding and it stopped moving you’d still roll backwards)
But you’d still be staying still and doing no work against gravity. The roll back would just be potential energy being released which was input when the bike was put up on the treadmill. I think.

This sort of stuff messes with my head – a bit like the 747 on a treadmill thought experiment. https://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/12/11/the-airplane-treadmill-conundrum/

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/08/hands-on-wahoos-new-kickr-climb-incline-simulator.html

Actually looks really fun! When someone gets around to making sweat proof VR glasses, Zwift on one of these is gonna be incredible!! (Zwift already has VR tech embedded and everyone who tries it is blown away by it).

Ok so it’s not really relevant or necessary for ‘just training’ but that kind of misses the point.

No different than indulging in a full on gaming rig for Call of Duty or something- you don’t hear snipers complaining that “it does absolutely nothing for your real world trigger control!!” 😆

If you live in a shitty town or city and spent most daylight hours at work over the winter, this kind of stuff opens up a whole new genre of entertainment. Immersive, social and it’s getting you fit 🙂

In a few years time, there’s gonna be some brilliant options around.

It’s not very environmentally friendly mind you, I doubled my electricity bill on Zwift last year 😆 (Smart trainer, TV, laptop, phone, iPad and 2 fans!)

Would it change if you were cycling on a running machine pointed up? i.e. a travellator type thing

To contradict Larkim, I think it would as you are effectively riding one large roller and trying to push your weight up it. This isn’t the same with a separate roller for the front and rear wheels.

However, where I do agree with him is…

This sort of stuff messes with my head – a bit like the 747 on a treadmill thought experiment.

so I might well be wrong.

To contradict Larkim, I think it would as you are effectively riding one large roller and trying to push your weight up it. This isn’t the same with a separate roller for the front and rear wheels.

But look at the bike from the side – its not going anywhere up, down or sideways. So there’s no “work” being done.

A treadmill that you walk on lets you move your centre of gravity forwards, then the treadmill moves it back.

Or put another way, if you mounted the bike vertically and the rollers vertically, do you think it would be any harder to pedal? I don’t think you’d find you were doing any uphill work.

But again, I could be wrong!

Never mind that, how about the first trainer to make it bumpy?

Concept Tacx Neo Smart Bike to electromagnetically simulate cobbles

We’re getting closer to the Holy Grail of an off-road turbo that sprays you with cow muck and tips you off into a ditch if you get it wrong.

These real grade changes create a more immersive virtual riding experience while also engaging climbing muscles and improving pedalling technique to enable the rider to become a more efficient and powerful climber
Fools and their money, etc, etc.

Indeed. Imagine how realistic it would feel if you actually went for an actual ride outside? (Yes, I know it’ll improve resistance too, but the outside world is free and a lot more fun)

if you mounted the bike vertically and the rollers vertically, do you think it would be any harder to pedal

I reckon it would be a little more tricky, yes.

I reckon it would be a little more tricky, yes.

Think about the core muscle gains though.

Never mind that, how about the first trainer to make it bumpy?

The standard Tacx Neo (direct drive turbo trainer) has done that for a year or two. This new thing is an all-in-one exercise bike.

gradient changes the effective geometry of the bike, the steeper it gets the slacker the geometry. I have found raising the front wheel to simulate climbing increased the perceived effort to produce the same power.

I think that if you were serious about training then having the bike at the correct angle would help replicate the position you actually use

Some one told me that a rider in the performance program went for a power output test. The trainer was not happy with progress. The athlete said that the bike being level didn’t help as riding off road all her biggest power output was up hill. So they put blocks under her front wheel and her power output was higher

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7_rABu_-JQ[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVLls05qzV4[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDb2zoxSZoQ[/video]