Simple really, are they required to tell you or would it just “be nice”.

Facts would be more appreciated than speculation. Moral standpoints not required 😉

Linky’s to Reg’s nice too. Yes, I appreciate I’m using the wisdom (?) of STW rather than google and trawling the link myself.

Ta

Why would they? It would need to be some sort of misrepresentation IMO. If the product is the same, I don’t necessarily see that there has been one.

Sorry, just thoughts, I’d be a bit surprised if there’s an actual decision about it.

Why would they? It would need to be some sort of misrepresentation IMO. If the product is the same, I don’t necessarily see that there has been one.

Well, there’s several points here: firstly, oem products are often not built to the same spec as full retail product, and almost certainly won’t come with the same packaging. Sometimes the differences can be non functional eg colour or packaging, sometimes changes to match specific manufacturer requirements such as modification to the trail of the forks that Fisher are using on some of their bikes, and sometimes real performance downgrades- simplification to damping circuits, or only one set of springs supplied with a coil fork. Sometimes the product will be considered as secondhand by the manufacturer ie not warrantied at all.

I think that most people expect that unless they’re warned otherewise, that they are purchasing a retail product from a retailer, not a wholesale product, and I think there’s a moral obligation, at the very least, for the retailer to state that the equipment is oem. I’m also pissed off at people that quote a fictional rrp for a non retail price- realcycles and crc have both done this for the oem vanilla’s that they’re flogging at the moment- at least realcycles has the decency to flag them as oem. What makes me think the rrp is fictional? Simply that each site quotes a different rrp.

warranty is with the point of sale, so if you buy it from a shop it has a warranty. As for the forks being different, typically they have a different model number (look atthe forks on the Pitch Pro) so if you buy a Pike 454 it doesn’t matter if its OEM or not its the same fork.

RRP is set by the manufacturer, so they might differ on websites as they haven’t kept upto date with the monthly price hikes.

Personally, I don’t want the spare packaging and stickers so I am happy to save 20->40% of RRP, if you want the stickers by them from your LBS and pay the full price.

Well go on then – name and shame. Who’s sh@fted you?

Seek and ye shall find. It was first mentioned yesterday, and they are mentioned in this thread too.

richc, I know what you’re saying about tbe saving and spare gubbins, and I’m normally more than happy to buy oem for the saving, but I do think it important that we’re told up front whether product is retail, grey, or oem. For instance, if you’d bought a set of Vanilla’s and expected there to be three sets of springs with them, but they only came with the standard jobs, how would you feel about the added expense if you then had to go off and buy the heavy springs seperately
For some reason I’d always thought the warranty was only with the shop for a short period- obviously I’m wrong, but I am sure that several years ago Mojo wouldn’t perform warranty work on Fox forks that had been wrongly sold direct to consumer- they may have been grey import though.

I think Rockshox are currently the main exception in selling product that can be recognised as oem by the product name. It hasn’t always been the way though (and there may still be exceptions) – I’ve has a set of revelation 426’s with a steel steerer, for instance.
In the example I cited with respect to rrp, the forks have very recently appeared on both websites, and the last Fox price hike was in the order of 25%, not 2%

Bit of a rambling rant I know, sorry.

Unless the description of the product is incorrect, then their providence is inconsequential. However, any price comparison must be to the same product, or any difference must be clearly stated.

If CRC are quoting a RRP in the ad for an item, that should refer to the same product, with the same features.

As for warranty, your 1st port of call is always with he retailer anyway.

Wtf is OEM?

original equipment manufacturer,

Thank you 2hats! 8)

I believe there’s a similar case with the Rev 426s on Merlin and CRC, are these OEM too – as Merlin says an RRP of £499 and CRC an RRP of £379 for the same fork.

I as a buyer, was unaware that these may be OEM – I am now highly suspicious and wondering if I’ve made a mistake. So I think it is necessary to tell people that they may not be getting such a complete product or that there may be poorer tolerances or specs than a retail unit.

So I think it is necessary to tell people that they may not be getting such a complete product or that there may be poorer tolerances or specs than a retail unit

Do you really think that manufacturers tool up differently depending on who the buyer is?
Given the costs involved – I very much doubt it

I don’t believe there will be any difference in build quality, but specifications can be different.

All shimano bits I have bought from a large online retailer have either been OEM or from a split groupset. I don’t really mind as it saves on packaging (they just come in poly bags) that I would just throw away, but I do weigh this up with the competition before purchase.

However it is not listed as being OEM or otherwise….

Marzocchi were questioning the warranty on sold on OEM kit as its has been sold on so technically not “new” when you bought it. There seemed to be finding people were taking forks off new bikes for upgrades and selling on the old ones which do have different specs to the sold ones

Marzocchi were questioning the warranty on sold on OEM kit as its has been sold on so technically not “new” when you bought it. There seemed to be finding people were taking forks off new bikes for upgrades and selling on the old ones which do have different specs to the sold ones

No retailer has to offer any warranty. What you have is rights under the sale of goods act and any further warranty rights are discretionary

In hindsight – mleh!

A lot of computer places sell OEM, which is obviously cheaper than retail. They do list it as OEM, which is really supposed to be incorporated in a new build(they usually wont sell you Windows Vista OEM – for example – unless you buy some hardware too, which they feel justifies it for them) Packaging is different, and technical support for OEM is from the Shop(maybe none existant), for retail – in this case – it’s from Microsoft.

As far as I’m concerned they are too different products – and should be listed as so. OEM shouldn’t technically be offered retail.

merlin mostly sell oem so be carefull.currently they are not obliged to divuldge weather or not its oem.imo its wrong especially were forks are concerned

“merlin mostly sell oem”
So? They buy stock in bulk that bike manufacturers buy to build up bikes?

“believe there’s a similar case with the Rev 426s on Merlin and CRC, are these OEM too”
No. 426 is standard spec. 409 is generally OEM (on-one, sometimes merlin, sometimes CRC have them in). The only difference is the floodgate adjust is via an allen key, not a dail, the lack of a shock pump and rockshox box

If you actually go onto rockshox’s website you will find that all differences are listed on all models. Eg Tora 289/302/318, Recon SL/XC/327/335/351 etc..

Warranty wise, surely it falls under the sales of goods act regardless?

“I’ve has a set of revelation 426’s with a steel steerer, for instance”

Really? How old are they? I thought (from reading rockshox’s website when choosing mine) both the 426 and 409 were aluminium steerer tubed
Are they from a complete bike?

hmmm i have a set of the rockshox 426 revelations 09 on the way to me from CRC. Got them in their sale which now seems to have ended on those particular forks. Will be interested to see if they turn out to be oem, they are listed as having external floodgate adjustments etc. Would they come in one of the black rockshox boxes if they were non oem and a plain cardboard box if they were oem?

Hugh_b, I’m exactly the same, picked up a pair at a silly price from CRC and I’m now sceptical about their retail status. I would say they were as Merlin are listing them at £100 more RRP.

Anyway, I’m not too stuffed if they’re good and the spec is what they say it is.

Brought some Fox Talas from CRC, had no end of problems with them, firstly they leaked oil. First I knew they were OEM was when MOJO informed me. They informed me that I had to pay to get em repaired,did so. This was prior to leaving the UK permanently. Then the talas went, sent them to the NZ fox agent who replaced the TALAS unit and serviced them free of charge. They didn’t care they were OEM.

“I’ve has a set of revelation 426’s with a steel steerer, for instance”

This is the really key thing.

If an OE part is exactly the same spec as the AM (Aftermarket) one then other than the laok of box/pump/etc then there’s no issue but I know that in the past at least, there are OE versions of forks, tyres, etc that have exactly the same model number as the AM version but have different spec – for forks, the most common differences are steel steerer or stanchions.

If this is the case the IMO the shop should say so since it’s reasonably for a buyer to assume otherwise that the spec is that of the AM product since they are buying AM.

Didn’t mojo/fox do an ad campaign a while back with a guy selling dodgy luis vitton handbags and fox forks on the street? IIRC they were saying oem weren’t covered by warranty. Strange that C-T-G didnt have a prob with the NZ fox agents.

it’s pretty shady not saying that goods are OEM when they are, especially when youu don’t get full warranty cover.

As people have mentioned the shop who sells OEM to you will have to deal with any issues for you – if it were me I’d tip off the brand and the official UK distributor just to stir it up more

So if you were to get OEM Fox Forx on a built up bike – they wouldn’t be covered for Mojo’s warranty?
Some manufacturers/distributors sell frame & forks – I bought a Orange 5 & Fox TALAS together from Orange [via a dealer] would these be covered by Mojo’s [we’re doing you a favour here] warranty?

I remember this argument coming up in the past & I think Brant said that he’d ordered a load of OEM Shimano stock & it came packaged as & were identical to the retail version

Out of interest how can OEM have a RRP? Surely by definition it’s not intended to be sold direct to public (apart from manufacturers selling off their leftovers and bike stripping).

“mojo/fox do an ad campaign a while back with a guy selling dodgy luis vitton handbags and fox forks on the street?”

Are they suggesting somebody is making counterfeit fox forks?
If AM ones are the only ones to buy, what about the ones that come supplied on bikes?

“the shop who sells OEM to you will have to deal with any issues for you”
Doesn’t an AM fork go through the shop anyway?
Even if the manufacturer offers no independant warranty, you still have your retail warranty?

i think if it comes fitted on a bike it will be fine but the warranty will either have to go through the bike company first or you provide serial numbers of the bike to the component company to prove its legit

Mojo had the same qr15 vanilla r’s on the clearance list of their
website till end of last week! sold with single spring and mojo
warranty.

“the shop who sells OEM to you will have to deal with any issues for you”
Doesn’t an AM fork go through the shop anyway?
Even if the manufacturer offers no independant warranty, you still have your retail warranty?

what i meant was the shop will have to deal with it because the distributor will probably either charge you or tell you to sling it.

I once emailed Merlin asking about a specific fork they had for sale at a great price, I asked was it an OEM item etc etc

They replied saying they didnt know what I meant by OEM

I once emailed Merlin asking about a specific fork they had for sale at a great price, I asked was it an OEM item etc etc

They replied saying they didnt know what I meant by OEM

should’ve asked them if it was grey instead…. 😛

Well, did the obvious thing and called Mojo- it turns out that oem forks if sold without an authorised frame/bike aren’t warrantied by Fox.

However the Vanilla R qr15’s sold by Realcycles only (apparently it’s only a couple of pairs or so)were sold to them by Mojo, and Mojo, not Fox, are supplying a warranty. The forks being sold by CRC, according to Mojo, were not supplied by them, and have no warranty from Fox or Mojo so the only warranty with them is whatever crc are willing to offer.

… so the only warranty with them is whatever crc are willing to offer

No, the warranty is whatever CRC, as the retailer, is legally required to provide. This is the same whatever the status of the part.

Mojo’s view of the situation is irrelevant…

‘Retail’ part – warranty is with the retailer
‘OEM’ part – warranty is with the retailer
‘Grey’ part – warranty is with the retailer