Why do people get bent out of shape about slaughtering a new born/young cow

It’s the eyelashes.

Spring Lamb seems to be far less contentious for some reason.

I can see that there would be a response if the veggies were getting on their high-horse but I’ve not come across many that do

Lots claim to be doing it for moral or ethical reasons. I’d say that was fairly high horsey and implies meat eating is inherently unethical. A lot of the meat eater responses are simply pointing out that it is possible to be an unethical veggie too. IMO it’s far more important to think about where all you food comes from rather than just claiming veggie good, meat bad as some have done.

dazh – Member

And there’s the problem. I’m not sure youtube is a reliable indicator of the rights and wrongs of a particular debate. I know loads of vegans, I used to be one myself for a long time, and most of them couldn’t care less what other people eat/do. Sure if prodded they’ll engage you on the subject, and unsurprisingly they can talk at length about it, but my experience on the whole is that they find the subject very boring.

And that’s why there is absolutely no truth in the “how do you know if someone is vegan?” joke.
<insert chinnyreckon smiley here>

Ps. You’ve overdone your pseudo-blase stance, it’s far too obvious. 😉

Seriously though, I use a cafetiere to make my coffee. Seems OK. Is there any REAL advantage in buying a Gaggia or is it just a plot to remove more buying credits from my bank account?

Lots claim to be doing it for moral or ethical reasons. I’d say that was fairly high horsey

Absolutely. When we go out for a meal with family, (Mrs MR is a vegan) she invariably has to ask waiter/chef if there is dairy in the veggie dish she orders. This normally prompts repeated questions (they forget every few months or so) from our exclusively omnivorous families (read: meat, taters, accidental veg=garnish) as to why she is a (sic) ‘vegetarian’. She’s asked me a number of times whether she should simply say’I don’t want to talk about it’ as any answer historically sets off the almost imperceptible eye-rolling and ‘here she goes’ vibe, or at best confused raft of inquisition-grade ‘I don’t see what difference one person is going to make, I just don’t see it, why even bother etc’ .

Because her personal choice is, mostly, informed by personal ethical decisions this is perceived by the inquisitioner as ‘holier than thou’ (projection?)

Even though she only campaigns for animal welfare and cruelty-free farming by petition, and never ever by person-to-person evangelising – she nonetheless cannot seem to avoid being picked out by non-veggies/vegans and almost forced to ‘explain yourself’. Before being judged as uppity in some way. (‘See the Bill Hick’s ‘pick up the gun’ sketch!)

This thread is a perfect example of this in action. I think very often resentment arises simply because any question of ethics are raised. Yes there are preachy veggies etc, but there are defensive ones too. As a meat eater I’ve yet to be ear-bashed at the table by a veggie. But this has happened to Mrs M countless times, questioned, asked to defend self etc – always by non-veggies. I don’t feel this is a reaction to some ranty vegan youtube video. My eyes and ears tell me it’s because:

1. Her diet is different than the questioner
2. The question of ethics is raised after they asked why she is ‘different’

Sorry for clumsy post but hope this gets over my frustration with lazy rants at ‘out-group’ individuals or similar generalising.

Edit: Oops, wrong thread.

never ever by person-to-person evangelising – she nonetheless cannot seem to avoid being picked out by non-veggies/vegans and almost forced to ‘explain yourself’… This thread is a perfect example of this in action

Did you miss the bit where the thread was started by a prospective veggie attempting to explain their decision completely unbidden?

That’s kinda how all threads start.

That’s kinda how all threads start.

Well yes, but if the thread starts with an attempt to explain them self it can’t be because of the rude omnivores forcing them to do it.

Malvern Rider hits the nail on the head. How many times have I asked a meat-eater ‘why do you eat meat’? Zero (honest). How many time have I been asked ‘why are you a veggie/vegan?’. I’ve lost count.

When I was vegan I never even used the word. I told people I was veggie cos you kind of have to if you’ve been invited out for dinner or you’re going to a wedding or something. It’s a bit embarrassing all round if your host serves up an expensive steak only to be told that their guests are not going to eat it. But on the vegan issue I just used to tell people that I don’t eat dairy. Most of the time no one reacted, they just accepted it. But as soon as some people twigged that this must mean I’m a vegan, then the avalanche of idiotic questions would begin, along with a dissection of my own ethical stance on a myriad of issues from vegetable rights to the replenishment of global fish stocks. Try doing that 100 times and like I said, it gets very very boring.

Did you miss the bit where the thread was started by a prospective veggie attempting to explain their decision completely unbidden?

nope, did you miss the parts where I implored him not to do it? ;-). hopefully the ensuing thread will have beaten them off their high horse and rubbed some raw bacon in their face! thatll learn ’em proper.

I can’t stand intensive farming and awful neglect and treatment of the animals in anyway shape or form being reared or slaughtered , plus awful conditions for animals being contained for their milk , eggs etc..

Basically my reason for not eating meat anymore. I have no issues with eating animals, but I do have issues with neglect, bad treatment and mass-farming methods. Similarly we buy free-range or organic eggs and the little dairy we do have tends to be organic.

Genuinely thought I’d miss it more than I do, and that was 18 years ago. The smell of bacon still makes me hungry, but for me it was always a let down eating it after it smelt so good.

I have been tempted by local, farm-produced sausages (the one thing that would bring me back to meat – cut sausage jokes) but it’s just easier to cut the lot out.

Malvern Rider hits the nail on the head. How many times have I asked a meat-eater ‘why do you eat meat’? Zero (honest). How many time have I been asked ‘why are you a veggie/vegan?’. I’ve lost count.

+1

“Meat shaped objects” from Tesco’s nearly put me off for life, try some Rump Steak from a proper butchers.

Can you imagine what the British countryside would look like if you replaced all the livestock farming with crop growing? Veggies, you can thank me for better views!

Pescetarian for over a year now. I make sure I only eat good quality non farmed seafood. Never drink milk and never have. Very very rarely eat cheese. Do eat eggs and I make sure they’re free range etc.

Totally personal choice for me and I never advertise the fact or berate anyone for their own choices.

Has to be asked, did you believe the IFL article/research that you linked is sound because you wish to see vegetarians ‘bested’, or because the science is solid?

Here is one rebuttal to the claims in the article that you linked (read top few comments). If true, it’s quite sad that IFL took down the comments after just one day.

Curious things, humans. Many arguments/’debates’ are fuelled by simply wanting to be right/wanting others to be wrong, rather than wishing to get at the actual facts/further debates of an issue? I might be treading that very line here, but it’s good to have opposing views for comparison?

I’ll give you my reasons as to why I don’t think that is a solid rebuttal, more of a challenge. Right now though, I have a PhD and two jobs to apply for…… maybe later on this evening Malvern.

Can you imagine what the British countryside would look like if you replaced all the livestock farming with crop growing? Veggies, you can thank me for better views!

Cheers. 😆

Totally personal choice for me and I never advertise the fact or berate anyone for their own choices.

And I think that’s key. It’s like religion or owning a road bike 🙂 – it’s a personal choice that doesn’t need to be shouted about. Those that do are often the more insecure in the choices they’ve made.

And, as I noted earlier, Dairy cattle have a fairly reasonable existence on the whole in the EU. Certainly in comparison to other farmed animals.

And Dairy cow still produce calves for the beef trade. I’m not saying be vegan (which is again a fine choice and many reason to be vegan to many different levels) but if your objections to eating meat are moral you are contradicting yourself by eating milk cheese e.t.c. You can be vegetarian for many reasons, but if its anti meat production you should not eat milk cheese e.t.c.. If you just want to reduce the amount of meat (because as you say the expectation of meat production and price is too high and unrealistic) being farmed and are happy with some meat production sure eat cheese, drink milk but at the same time you could just eat less meat, eat only higher quality less intensively farmed meat.

Right now though, I have a PhD and two jobs to apply for

I’ll give you my reasons as to why I don’t think that is a solid rebuttal, more of a challenge. Right now though, I have a PhD and two jobs to apply for…… maybe later on this evening Malvern.

Well, that would be interesting, if you have time. But really I was asking what honestly motivated the (let’s be honest) mean-sounding/gloaty delivery of yr (rebuttal/challenge?) to the OP? And had you honestly done the research that allowed you to post the link in confidence, or must you now do the research in order to prove that you were right in doing so?

Surely you can see how it comes across?

All the best with the interviews btw!

“When I was vegan I never even used the word. I told people I was veggie cos you kind of have to if you’ve been invited out for dinner or you’re going to a wedding or something. It’s a bit embarrassing all round if your host serves up an expensive steak only to be told that their guests are not going to eat it. But on the vegan issue I just used to tell people that I don’t eat dairy. Most of the time no one reacted, they just accepted it. But as soon as some people twigged that this must mean I’m a vegan, then the avalanche of idiotic questions would begin, along with a dissection of my own ethical stance on a myriad of issues from vegetable rights to the replenishment of global fish stocks. Try doing that 100 times and like I said, it gets very very boring”

Ok this has to stop, you just made my wife shout ‘yes’, enthusiastically. Multiple times.

The egss issue is a real one.

I got chickens, and if they aren’t laying the farm has an honesty box for their near feral flock. I don’t reckon most people would find it hard to find an ethical source even in towns these days.

Milk is more problematic. Even if every veggie went vegan it’d still be produced for the majority population.. does it bother me? I can’t say I think too much on it to be honest, but then I wouldn’t presume to tell anyone else what and what not to eat.

Apart from Rustlers, I mean FFS there are limits..

Go for it, OP!

I haven’t eaten meat since 1980 and, trust me, it isn’t an essential dietary requirement if you eat an otherwise well balanced diet. I raced (running) at a good club level as a vegetarian. Ignore the bacon and pie boys on here 🙂

I stopped eating meet a couple of months ago and honestly I barely miss it, even with a pretty heavy training program currently.

Also even when I ate meet I thought bacon was overrated. Chicken wings were the shit though. **** chicken wings.

OP it’s your decision, no one else’s. You don’t need to justify if you do eat meat or you don’t. Just understand where it comes from.

Outside of here no one really asks me about being a vegan. An occasional what do you eat but I have not had to play BS bingo in the real world for about 20 years. They do occasionally ask about the kids that ranges from curiosity because they eat their greens to I must be cruel as they have never been to Mc Donalds.

When I was vegan

Jots down name adds to list 😉

OP or indeed anyone here eat what you want and then STFU and let other people do the same.

Oh don’t give up….may be I can tempt you with some dried meat….that costs 8 quid for 100g!!!

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-the-chichester-biltong-company

A good analogy to this would be never to be a consumer of apple products due to the shocking enlightenment of the way they treat their employees not to mention their profit figures make me physically sick.

Oh drat, I’ve just realised I dropped my steak burger all over my ipad!

😛 😆

Good on you. We eat a completely unsustainable quantity in the west.

* orders more bacon for the Minigaff trip *

refuses to share cakes he has made

Meh. I’m off carbs 😆