I’ve currently got a Santa Cruz Heckler which I’ve built as a bit of a mini DH bike. I went to the Forest of Dean riding the downhills yesterday and had a go on a mates Bullit, which felt so much nicer and just inspired confidence and made me want to jump. So now I think I want to change my frame to a longer travel ‘skills compensator’, however my budget is fairly limited (about £350 ish) and I’m fairly tall so need a large frame (which there seen to be fewer of), so what second hand frames would you recommend? Thanks.

trawl pink bike and southerdownhill and descentworld there will be full bikes for arounf 400 or at least frame forks those are the ones you are looking for!
222/223/224, Older Giants, Some Iron Horse Sundays

Are the rest of the bits you have going to work on a bigger frame? Forks are the biggest issue, wheel compatibility etc.

Mike’s right for the best places to look.

do it i built up an old stab frame and forks 150 quid off pinkbike/sdh
few cheap parts off ebay, after a couple of years sold them for what they cost me

evntually got a newer stinky frame (250 quid pinkbike) better forks- 66s (150 off pinkbike), a whole new world of riding!!

or depending on where you are outside our local supermarket the kids still leave DH bikes unlocked

I’m going through the same thought proces just now, but so far I reckon I’d be happier on my pretty excellent big trail bike than I would be on a cheapo DH bike. Might come back to it when I’ve got a bit more cash though but looking at what my budget would get for a full build, it’s barrel scrapings- ancient Stinkies and the like, in poor condition. I’d sooner have my Lyriks that work than Boxxers that don’t.

So on that note… Recent Hecklers are warrantied for up to 170mm of fork aren’t they? I just sling a set of stronger wheels into the Hemlock and go, but it doesn’t take long to swap a fork as well. Never ridden a Heckler with a big fork in though.

That your Heckler?

IMO there’s not much point in spending 300 odd on a frame with an extra inch of travel. You could ‘freeride’ rightly on that, but if doesn’t feel as composed as you mates Bullit then maybe spend the cash on getting your suspension fettled?

I’m going through the same thought proces just now, but so far I reckon I’d be happier on my pretty excellent big trail bike than I would be on a cheapo DH bike.

I’ve wondered about this too – my only bike is a Pitch with 36 Vans on it, and I sort of think the limitation is my lack of balls rather than the bike in terms of being able to do freeride with it. But it’s tempting to believe that a DH or Freeride bike would give me more confidence to try sillier stuff.

Grum, a mate has a pitch and stuck as set of Totems and a decent coil shock on it and it’s a beast. Our DH trails are fairly rough and are littered with jumps and drops (is that what freeride is?) and his pitch copes really well.

I ride a 6″ minidh bike as my only fullsusser and i’m convinced you really don’t need a full on dh bike unless you’re racing and taking it seriously. Maybe 5% of the time I would be faster/feel more in control on a bigger bike but it can be fun (in short bursts) when you’re simply a passenger on a 2 wheeled luck machine.

I had the same dillema as the OP. I took my Heckler to the Alps and decided I wanted to get something bigger so instead of spending a lot on my heckler to make it into a mini DH bike I bought a Bullit Frame and built it up for DH duties. This way I can still use my heckler as a trail bike and the bullit for DH.

I figured it wasn’t the right thing to do to spend a significant amount of cash on changing my heckler from a really nice trail bike into something which wasn’t a great DH bike and probably a lot less fun on regular UK trials.

If you are swapping from heckler frame to a new longer travel FR/DH one it is likely that you will need new forks and maybe a 150mm rear wheel which all add up to a fair bit of money.

If I was you I’d do what mike and steve suggest and scour DH forums for a complete older DH bike. It may cost a bit more intially but If you don’t like it you can sell it on without having to mess round with your current bike.

Something like the stinky above or a 222/223/ Giant Glory or Faith can be found for ok money if you are lucky.

Grum, a mate has a pitch and stuck as set of Totems and a decent coil shock on it and it’s a beast. Our DH trails are fairly rough and are littered with jumps and drops (is that what freeride is?) and his pitch copes really well.

Haha, it must be crazy slack with Totems (180mm travel?) – mine is pretty damn slack with 160mm forks. The frame is also only warrantied for 160mm forks so I dunno if I’d feel confident doing big drops etc. I have thought about getting a coil shock for it though – you don’t know which one he has do you?

I would say it looks really purposeful as opposed to crazy slack – like it should have that size of fork. Sorry not sure of the shock – fox something with Ti spring.

Completely understand the warranty thing. He’s a decent rider and will ride pretty much anything so i’ve seen him take a couple of big crashes. The bike’s been grand (him, not so much :D).

grum – Member

But it’s tempting to believe that a DH or Freeride bike would give me more confidence to try sillier stuff.

Yeah, there is that…

But then, there’s familiarity… If you ride the DH bike only rarely, you’ll be less used to it, and also more likely to come across setup issues, you see an awful lot of people on uplift days wasting time and runs trying to get the bike to work… Whereas if you have a capable normal bike, you just jump on and go.

These are among the arguments i’m using on myself to stop from buying that Glory on Pinkbike 😉

id built my kona dawg up as a mini dh bike and did a fair few dh races on it, alps etc

when i got the old stab frame/old bomber tripple clamps swapped a lot of bits over from my dawg , got some xc wheels sh and returned it into its orginal guise as an am mile muncher and it was much better at that than it was at being a dh bike

the dh bike i just had to buy some bigger brakes pinkbike again and everything else was s/h stuf off ebay

all in cost me about 500 quid to set both bikes up and running as they were intended and have slowly upgraded the dh bike

what im trying to say is imho its better to have the right tools for the right jobs rather than a compromise

Thing is though, I’ve ridden a very similiar Stinky to yours- Domains instead of the 66s- and I’d choose my Hemlock over it for downhill stuff. Never ridden a long-forked Heckler so can’t really comment on that but the compromise can be the better option IMO, modern trail bikes are ridiculous.

Grum – I have a Pitch with a DHX 4.0 coil spring on it and its sweet. Rides loads better than the standard shock. I have a mate who has one with a Cane Creek DB on it and Lyriks up front. He had that in the Alps with us last year and it rode really nicely.

I’ve ridden a very similiar Stinky to yours- Domains instead of the 66s- and I’d choose my Hemlock over it for downhill stuff

as stock id believe you but had my shock custom tuned and now its a monster!

beside, didnt hemlocks have an issue with chainstays snapping?
a s/h dh bike is much better at getting chucked in an uplift truck and not worried about too

kimbers – Member

beside, didnt hemlocks have an issue with chainstays snapping?

Aye, but a revised chainstay was made (mine snapped, wasn’t under warranty, Cotic fixed it anyway). But, not specifically bigging up my bike here, just saying that you need a pretty nice DH bike to beat some of these modern big AM/trailbikes.

Stinky is a sound bet at the budget end, yeah.

Plenty around so you could probably find one that hadn’t been ridden much. Maybe not for £350 though.

Specialized Big Hit is a good value entry level frame, just don’t go older than 05 ish as those ones were designed for a 24″ rear wheel. Southerndownhill forum is the place to pick up a bargain, you have to register to be able to view the classifieds though.
Your Heckler does look plenty capable though to be fair…

Grum – I have a Pitch with a DHX 4.0 coil spring on it and its sweet. Rides loads better than the standard shock. I have a mate who has one with a Cane Creek DB on it and Lyriks up front. He had that in the Alps with us last year and it rode really nicely.

Cheers yeah, I have been building mine up with going back to the Alps in mind. Not sure I want to spend £4-500 at the mo – wondering if a Vanilla R would be worth trying out.

Euro, yes that’s my Heckler. I’m happy with the build, but I’ve been contemplating changing the forks for a while now and I’m now contemplating changing the forks and frame!

Generally it’s good, but sometimes it feels a bit too small / short for me (although it’s a Large I’m 6’5″) and it feels like my weight is too far forward when things get steep. Would a longer fork make things feel ‘better’ or would it totally knacker the geometry? Thanks.

What travel are your forks? 130mm? Looks the same age as my newly acquired Heckler build with the 5th rear. I have u-turn Lyriks on mine – feels great at 130mm for most stuff but it’s a blast on the downhills with the forks wound out to 150. I’m still experimenting a bit with the 5th Element – feels a bit harsh on small bumps even though I’m using all the travel. Gonna give it ago with the compression damping backed off this week.

I’m thinking the same – I have a Maverick ML8 with 150 front/160 rear travel and whilst it is awesome for 95% of my riding in the UK, a couple of recent trips to Cwmcarn and Aston Hill and an upcoming trip to the Alps are making me want something a little burlier. I have seen photos of some ML8s doing DH in the US with a pair of Totems on the front, which is one option, but I can’t really be bothered swapping forks etc over and for the price of some decent Totems, I could probably buy half of a used DH bike.

JEngledow, a longer fork should help with pushing your weight back a bit. Wether it’ll screw the geometry, i’ve no clue. I don’t think a degree or so either way would make the bike unridable though. Sticking a 36 Talas/Lyric up front would be handy and give you a few options. Looking at all those gussets at the headtube, i’d say it could take 150-170 no bother.

At least then you’d have the forks if you decide to get a bigger frame.

Buy this one. 😉

grum, I have a van rc on my pitch and it rides very well. With my baby being born in November I haven’t ridden that much of late, but for general freemincing duties (Woburn and Aston hill DH)my pretty nice DH bike has stayed in the shed. Unless you are riding full on DH tracks regularly I would just get a coil for your pitch.

“Generally it’s good, but sometimes it feels a bit too small / short for me (although it’s a Large I’m 6’5″) and it feels like my weight is too far forward when things get steep.”

Was your friend’s bullet the same size frame as your heckler? I found a medium Heckler quite small at 5’10 and skittish downhill. It wasn’t the lack of travel, more the frame sizing. Have you considered going up a frame size?

Have you considered going up a frame size?

Yes, but I thought if I’m going to get a new frame I may as well use the opportunity to get a bit more travel and slacker geometry as I’ve only used the Heckler for DH/Freeride/mucking about in the woods since I got it.

Would tend to agree with what’s been said up there ^^^ leave your trail bike alone and knock up something cheap (ish) 😉 from the various sources mentioned. When I got the urge I managed to get a cheap (and rather lovely) DH bike and it is night and day – no question. Gives you loads of confidence to hoon off stuff and generally go silly fast. In the end I didn’t ride it enough to warrant keeping it – but the itch got scratched and if it comes back I’d do the same thing again.

ps mama – lovely ickle heckler — just like mine 😀

i ride a 6 inch heckler at Aston and Cwmcarn for DH and it’s brilliant. Got a DHX5 and pikes on it.Feels like a bmx.Running DH kit on it. It is tempting to think about DH bikes. I call mine a MINI DH bike 😆

good to see you have a Heckler MamaDirt 😀 Looks lovely.Think you’ll find the 5th better than the float. 😀

I’ve been offered a Santa Cruz VP-Free for a reasonable price, is this worth considering or is it still a bit of compromise like the Heckler?

I’ve never found a Heckler a compromise TBH. It never feels out of it’s depth, and encourages you to ride smoothly rather than just blast over everything.I would say it has the advantage of being a great pedaler and very chuckable in tight wooded dh. Can also double as a great playbike.Granted you wouldn’t want to do 20ft road gaps on it.

I’ve been through this exact thing.

I DHified my Heckler, big forks, coil shock etc. It got more cumbersome on a normal XC ride and I was approaching the limit on our local DH tracks where I felt it was holding me back a bit as I didn’t want to break it or myself. On some advice from a friend I bought a Spesh Big Hit in the sale and the difference has been like night & day. Even though the Bighit isn’t a ‘proper’ DH bike, the angles & stability allow a totally different style of riding compared to a trail/xc bike. My riding has progressed and bits like decent chaindevice, Full face helmet etc make a world of difference.

Yes a Heckler is capable, but if you really do want to ride proper DH trails better and improve your riding, I’m convinced a proper big bike is the way forward, even on easier stuff like FOD where a big bike will simply let you go a lot faster without fear of something exploding.

I still have an XC bike aswell.

that’s interesting scruff.I can understand that a DH bike is better tbh. Maybe I need Both 🙂

grum, I have a van rc on my pitch and it rides very well. With my baby being born in November I haven’t ridden that much of late, but for general freemincing duties (Woburn and Aston hill DH)my pretty nice DH bike has stayed in the shed. Unless you are riding full on DH tracks regularly I would just get a coil for your pitch.

Cheers Bagstard – my only concern is I wonder if I’d miss the propedal, as I do have do some hefty climbs on it in the Lakes.

The compression does a pretty good job of reducing bob, I use around one click for free-mincing/DH and then add about four and some preload for XC.

Ive also got a heckler with a small frame with a fox 36 and coil shock on the back rear. I have also built up a second hand Specialized big hit 3 with loads of parts from ebay.

Although the Heckler is capable DH bike, due to the slack head angle and long wheel base the big hit is a lot more fun on uplift days.

I killed my heckler riding it DH

Get something with better tyre clearance (than an 06) and the ig hanger will cause you problems

There are v10’s on ebay at the min or try your nearest DH race for some bargins in the field