I really need to some friendly advice here, before I throw the towel in with this hobby!

Not been for ages, as when I last did, I just didn’t enjoy it out of fear. Last crash was in May last year at Cymcarn, and my headspace has got progressively worse since, despite it only leaving bruises. Weirdly, the first couple of years doing it (occasionally), I didn’t really possess this fear and overthinking it, despite being a less proficient rider. And yes, I am very conscious of technique, and try to focus on improving that in incremental steps – I’m also aware that a skills course would probably be a good idea.

• The fact that – by its very nature – falling off is part of mountain biking. Some people even say ‘’if you aren’t falling off, you aren’t trying hard enough, and you’re not progressing’’. That sentence just doesn’t appeal to me at all! It’s now made me feel that if I’m not falling off for a while, I’m a failure, as I’m not trying hard enough. It’s the knowledge that no matter how good I get, I will (and should be) falling. Likewise, the very nature of the fun parts is sometimes the near misses and sense of ‘’getting away with it’’ – sometimes I enjoy that, but often I’m thinking ‘’ergh, let’s just try and get through this descent’’. This is amplified massively when it’s slippery. Stick to just easy trails I can relax on (like Ashton Court, or Verderers Trail where I don’t expect to crash)? Well surely that again means I am failing, and that I am not cut out for it as a hobby, or, that I am in some sort of denial about crashing.

• The above also gives a degree of inevitability. It’s not if you fall, it’s when. While a lot of activities (even walking) carry a degree of risk, you wouldn’t necessarily say about driving your car ‘’it’s not if you have a car crash, it’s when’’. One would hope of course, that this unfortunate event never occurs. You don’t get in your car, expecting to crash. Likewise, one would not ‘’expect’’ to drown while surfing. Your subconscious accepts that in your remaining life, you will stub your toe, burn yourself on the kettle, trip over occasionally etc. But that is far more in the background. Of course the irony is that both driving and commute road cycling – which I do on a regular basis – are more risky activities than mountain biking. So I’m trying to come to terms with this principle, that sometimes I will fall, and that’s ok. It’s a bizarre thing to try and get my head around.

• A few months ago, I went to Wales 3 weekends in a row, to the same trail (Cafall at Cymcarn), and enjoyed it. I then did the same trail on weekend 4, with a mate. He hadn’t been for ages, so I was expecting to be comparable to him on the descents. And while I was quick on the climbs…I was so much slower and more nervous on the descents. This was despite all the recent practice I’d had, and the fact that he hadn’t been for ages. It made me feel sh*t about myself, in that clearly, even after that I was still significantly slower (and more nervous), that surely this indicated that I simply am not cut out for the sport, or not mentally suited to it. Again, it’s a hard thing to get my head round. N.B. He has crashed the last 3 times he has been riding, probably from chasing speed, and it hasn’t put him off!

• Reading articles which pop up, like the paralysed solicitor, suing for £4million. Or how concussions are cumulative and cause depression/brain injury, or Cedric Gracia’s horrific injury. Obviously, this more often applies to downhill racers, or full on riders, but in my head I’ve twisted it to relate to me. But falls do happen, to everyone, even on benign trails (in fact the article does state that horrific injuries can sometimes happen on the most everyday trails through bad luck), and consequence of those falls may be serious, if unlikely. Somehow I am now catastrophizing, in imagining the worst to happen when I do.

• And lastly, I suppose coming from a hobby of surfing in my 20’s, which – while it has risks – does not involve falling onto hard ground. I don’t go into a session of surfing with apprehension and fear of injury. Yes it can be incredibly frustrating and fickle (unlike mountain biking), but I generally feel relatively safe out there.

So yeah…those are my issues. Ahem. But there is so much positive to it. Time out in beautiful nature, sharing great times with friends, the adrenaline buzz and fun, the fact that there is always room for progression, the fitness and health benefits, the satisfaction at conquering climbs or challenges, escapism from everyday life, coming away feeling satisfied and refreshed, and bikes themselves are nice things to obsess over. So I’m loathe to give it up.

I’ve not been for ages (principally because of the above thoughts), and maybe that’s a big part of the problem.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

TLDR – you need a coach.

Again: TLDR. I got the gist from the 1st few sentences.

Have you heard of Jedi?
http://ukbikeskills.co.uk/

Seems expensive, it really isn’t.

I’ve crashed a lot less these days, skills and all that help. Pushing hard doesn’t mean crashing but finding your limits helps
Though I had 2 silly ones this week when I overbalanced on a log and then when I misjudges a kerb on the roadie 😉

[video]https://youtu.be/U8BWBn26bX0[/video]
Can’t believe I’ve not seen the video before

As above but also vary the type of terrain you ride and find stuff you enjoy.Don’t compare yourself to others -he could be over confidant due to inexperience .Most people are very confidant and come on quickly at first and often get brought up short by their first crash .
I’m slow on the ups, shite on the downs and generally have a good time ,best to improve according to your own abilities that get involved in willy waving or comparisons

I disagree fundamentally with the idea that if you’re not crashing you’re not trying hard enough. I cycle because I enjoy it – I enjoy being in the moment, I enjoy the challenges and I enjoy the glow of satisfaction afterwards.

If something looks a bit hairy, I get off and walk it. I do also push myself but I’m no fan of terror or pain so I try to avoid putting myself in situations where I’m likely to mangle myself. Why would you? Just enjoy it at a level within your happy limits.

Hi. You use some interesting language in your post, and I get the feeling that you are putting pressure on yourself to be a better rider. Do you consider yourself to be competitive? If so, is that just within yourself or is it with others too?

I find it hard to help as I’m not usually very competitive, but if you are slower and more nervous than your riding buddies, perhaps you should try and think about why that makes you feel shit.

I get the impression from some of your words that you ‘think’ a lot about riding – concentrating on technique and worrying about crashing . I certainly think that you’d benefit from relaxing (as if it was that easy!) and learning to enjoy riding again without having to be the first to the bottom. Cwm Carn, and most trail centres, are probably not ideal to do that. They tend to have sections of trail that are defined as ‘downhills’. Riding more natural trails means more rolling terrain and wide open views, cafe stops and interactions with the real world which all give additional elements of enjoyment to a ride.

The other problems with trail centres is that there is usually only one line to pick, you have to nail it, and there is less of a feeling of ‘surfing’ the terrain.

The descent at Cwm Carn is not a steep trail, and it can we ridden quickly with balls but relatively little skill. The high speed will highten the feeling of danger. In fact, I think that everytime I get to the bottom of that trail I think I rode flat out and it was pretty scary, ‘on the edge’ for a high proportion. Over thinking that would only make me slower the next time round.

I have had a few crashes myself, and I have consciously decided to try and enjoy riding more than just concentrating on going fast. That can mean purposely coasting downhills rather than trying to fit in frantic pedal strokes for example.

Try practising slow speed skills like wheelies, manuals, bunney-hops and side-hops. Practice at slow speed with minimal risk and it will massively improve your confidence. If you can pop the front wheel over an unexpected drop or obstacle it can be a life saver. Employ it a few times and you will have more confidence that you can ride the unknown trail round the corner.

And it is counter intuitive, but slow, steep technical descents are great practise, and can be bailed a lot more safely than fast stuff.

If you fancy coming down to the Mendips or Quantocks sometime, give me a shout for a chilled out, but not necessarily slow ride 🙂

Oh, also your bike can sometimes be a hindrance. If you have a £4k enduro rig then you might hope to be able to find its potential occasionally, but that will create pressure. You might also imagine other people will have expectations on you. A great bike can be great fun and very quick in the right hands, but they can be shit place to start out.

Take a break for a bit?

I had a summer/winter like that (kept crashing and feeling like a shit rider) a few years ago. Then i took a break until I really wanted to go riding again, rather than forcing myself.

Been much happier, more confident and fitter since then.

Don’t beat yourself up about ropey riding in the wet – wet and dry mountain biking is like two different sports, it’s so much more difficult when the grip is a bit dicey. Everyone struggles with this so just accept that you’re not going to be riding everything in the same way.

A year ago, I could have written that, but it would have been longer 🙂 In fact I probably did use most of those phrases if I look hard enough.

I made a change this year, which was prompted by getting a fatbike and doing more exploring. But actually it was more a change of mindset, which has persisted now I’m back on a “normal” bike riding regular trails.

There is a big difference between mountain biking the sport and riding your bike up and down some mountains for fun. The former tends to dominate in online discussions and magazines. It is inherently competitive (a sport) and the goal is to be faster downhill. Everything you say about mountain biking, the sport, is true. Crashes are inevitable, if you are slow then by definition you are crap etc.

However, while the sport dominates in forums like this, riding your bike in beautiful scenery for fun is actually what a lot of people do. If the sport isn’t for you then just abandon the sport, but don’t abandon riding your bike if you enjoy it.

If you are competitive (and I am) then you might need to define some other challenges for yourself. But it doesn’t have to be how fast you are downhill. Climbing speed, distance covered, visiting every square on the OS map are all perfectly legitimate ways to measure your progress.

That’s funny – when I read your OP I found myself thinking, “I wonder what roverpig is up to these days”…

That’s funny – when I read your OP I found myself thinking, “I wonder what roverpig is up to these days”..

😀 😀

Quite a bit of this, if you must know 🙂

Looks great! Is that Bennachie or thereabouts?

You seem to be really hung up on this idea of “failure” in terms of mountain biking – technical progression is not mandatory, and to not do so is not a failure of any kind…

Focus on the things in your last paragraph that you really enjoy about cycling off-road;

Time out in beautiful nature, sharing great times with friends, the adrenaline buzz and fun, the fact that there is always room for progression, the fitness and health benefits, the satisfaction at conquering climbs or challenges, escapism from everyday life, coming away feeling satisfied and refreshed, and bikes themselves are nice things to obsess over.

None of the above requires you to push yourself past your limits or do anything you’re not comfortable with. Concentrate on that, and just enjoy it for what it is. As someone mentioned, muck about on your bike doing slow-speed silly stuff; wheelies, bunny-hops, endoes, all that sort of thing. It’ll help you feel more at one with the bike, and will improve your riding without you knowing it.

If you do have an inner desire to progress your riding that you can’t quieten, then definitely get coaching – maybe not even skills coaching, maybe sports psychology?

As for actual riding, I’ve always approached any kind of step-up in ability with the mantra “Slow is Smooth, and Smooth is Fast” – concentrating on riding as smoothly as possible within the confines of my ability has always resulted in a gradual enlargement of my comfort envelope.

Good luck, and stick with it!

I know exactly what you mean. I refer you to a response i wrote on this thread yesterday http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cx-bikes-2

and know that you don’t have to be hucking gnarly backflips off a cliff and down to A&E to be a proper rider. There’s as much pleasure to be had from getting out there and seeing the world beyond the next hill as there is from pushing your limits.

But if you’re intent on progressing, and want some mental skills to go with your physical ones – then there can be only one: http://ukbikeskills.co.uk/

Looks great! Is that Bennachie or thereabouts?

Close enough, it’s up in the Clashindarroch forest. That’s The Buck in the background. Looks good in pictures, but don’t bother riding it unless you enjoy a good hike-a-bike 🙂

Well I’d have a think about your bike.

The wrong length stem can completely screw up the balance of a bike. So whilst you can manage, you might not realise that you’re on the edge of stability and traction all the time. This can make you feel nervous, without realising why. Having your weight forward on corners (people advise this for some reason) can help on long open corners, but is terrible on twisty techy stuff which is most stuff these days (since bombing down swooping fire-roads stopped constituting a ‘good descent’).

Also, consider a fully rigid bike. If it’s bumpy, you simply can’t go that fast on it downhill, which means you have no options but to stop trying. The ride is no longer about speed, and is more about getting out in the countryside, covering miles and enjoying the climbs.

I’ve never had coaching, so can’t comment, except that it sounds like a good idea.

Other things to consider, though, that I’ve learned myself:
– being able to land without breaking/ damaging yourself when you do come off is an invaluable skill. It may not make you feel better, but knowing that if you come off you’ll probably just have a scraped leg/ bruised shoulder/ muddy gloves is somewhat reassuring.
– as above, it sounds like you’re really pressuring yourself, as if you “should” be going faster, or down more technical lines. Unless you’re aiming to be pro, mtbing is about enjoyment! If you’re not enjoying yourself, what’s the point?! So take the pressure off – if you get to the bottom of a descent thinking “woah, that was tricky, but I made it”, that’s what counts!

Ultimately, mtbing is quite an individual thing. I’ve been on a couple of STW group rides and realised that I’m never going to be as gnar as some of the folks on here, but that’s fine. I enjoy riding, and nobody was too obvious in mocking my complete lack of skills… 😉

Ride for fun.
Ride for views.
Ride for fresh air.
Ride for solitude.
Ride for company.
Ride to explore.
Ride to listen.

A few things OP:

• A few months ago, I went to Wales 3 weekends in a row, to the same trail (Cafall at Cymcarn), and enjoyed it. I then did the same trail on weekend 4, with a mate. He hadn’t been for ages, so I was expecting to be comparable to him on the descents. And while I was quick on the climbs…I was so much slower and more nervous on the descents.

Don’t let that unsettle you. Personally I sometimes find myself quicker after a break. Whether it’s to do with letting things settle in or the pure enjoyment of getting back out on a bike after time off, I have no idea. But if you’re suffering and he’s loving it, I’d have no problems believing he’s quicker.

And lastly, I suppose coming from a hobby of surfing in my 20’s, which – while it has risks – does not involve falling onto hard ground. I don’t go into a session of surfing with apprehension and fear of injury.

Oddly enough, I’m the opposite. After a hold-down last winter I’m a lot more apprehensive in anything over 2-3ft faces. I’ve been out out in bigger since and settled in fine, but that scare, a lack of practice and a lack of fitness has me quaking a little when I pull into the carpark and see 3-4ft lines.

As above, to me it sounds like a break or training (or both?) would help. You should be enjoying it, not fighting it. We all go through ups and downs, look at this as a down from which you need to start heading back up (should you choose to, which again is another choice to make).

I don’t think you’re alone on any of these thoughts OP.

I’ve spannered myself several times in the last 2 years, plenty of breaks. It taught me that yesterday i didn’t do a particular drop at BPW, however that didn’t take anything away from the day.

I was also slower than my riding mate… but you know what, there’s no shame in that… he’s a good rider 🙂

then again, so am i… even though Strava may not show it, i’m a decent, capable and competent rider…

Most of all.. i enjoyed it… loads.

If you start pressuring yourself too much, start making everything into “must be better”… then you’re likely to stop enjoying it… it’s then that it’s time to give up.

Your way over thinking it, just go and ride for fun.

I crash all the time cos I like trying to go fast but am a bit rubbish. On the days I don’t feel like crashing I just have a pedal about in the woods. I should probably go on a skills course but hey, it’s just riding a bike innit. If you want to get good and take it seriously get some coaching or if you just think you want to. Otherwise don’t sweat it, mountain biking is an ultimately pointless pursuit, fortunately it just happens to be ace.

Butterflies at the top of a descent are good too, if you weren’t a little bit scared it wouldn’t be as much fun. If it’s debilitating fear, then don’t ride that bit.

Crashing is not inevitable! The way I see it is some folk ride their bike like a rally car – its all about speed. For others like me its more like a landrover – using it to get into wild places safely.
I would say just relax and enjoy riding your bike. Get away from “man made” trails and out into the hills. Do as scotroutes says.

I’ve always disagreed with the “if you’re not crashing, you’re not trying hard enough” mentality.

It sounds to me like you’re thinking way too much. By all means think when you’re practising something but when you’re executing and want to flow you have to stop thinking. I’ve been working through some meditation on this with Headspace – it’s a very powerful tool, learning to work with your brain rather than letting it control you.

Funny you mention surfing. Pretty sure the quote by way of explaining the cerebral, self indulgent joy of “just surfing” was along the lines of “there’s no predefined standard you have to meet to be able to do it, to be able to enjoy it”.

That’s the key I think. I mostly ride alone. I’m a city boy and one of the main attractions for me is to be able to get out into scenery that I’m, even after 19 years of being in Wales, still stunned by. I like to go fast. I like to surf a, to me, massive wave. But, seriously, if I’m in the line up with Laird and he gets a 40 footer am I going t feel like I need to get a 41 footer? Of course not. The guy I do ride with and surf with a bit is younger, quicker and more fearless. He’s quicker as a result (I still surf better than him though 🙂 ). I don’t feel bad about the bike because I still push myself and have an amazing time either on the bike or the board.

Chill mate. Enjoy the opportunities you have. You can’t grade inner enjoyment, you can just feel it if you let your”targets” go.

Thanks guys, all really helpful and positive stuff. I do need to stop over thinking it, relax a bit, and just try to enjoy it at my own pace!

I can totally relate to this.

I’ll pass on some advice I was given recently:
On the days when you’re feeling good, seek out the challenging trails. On days when you’re feeling less confident, go for the easier stuff that you know you can ride as it will help your confidence.

Context of this is a broken Tib/fib from late May this year. Getting back on the bike was easy, getting my head around falling off again wasn’t. I’ve had some coaching that got me riding stuff I could t even before the break which gave me a massive boost but that advice above is something that I keep going back to. It stops me from feeling like I can’t ride some stuff when in another day I’d ride it fine.

Give yourself some time to just have fun without worrying about times, speed, etc. Just go out and enjoy yourself without beating yourself up all the time.

Have fun, fall off, dust off, go again

Absolutely, as clint Eastwood said.. a man’s gotta know his limitations.
Upgrading your bike to a 5k show horse is not going to magically make you better.

And don’t forget why your riding in the first place, to have fun. To quote Bhodi.. They’re punks. Nazis. Their brains are wired wrong. They hurt surfing because they give nothing back, and they have no respect for the sea. They just want to get radical. It’s mindless aggression. They’ll never get it, the spiritual side of it.

I crash a lot and am to old really to do that. After first big one 3 yrs ago I had some great coaching with DirtSchool which got rid of some skeletons in the closet. I thought I had it sussed now from point of view of riding for fun and fresh air till I ended up in hospital on Monday for a ripped up arm.

TJ and scotroutes have nailed it, the old duffers they are 😀

scotroutes – Member
Ride for fun.
Ride for views.
Ride for fresh air.
Ride for solitude.
Ride for company.
Ride to explore.
Ride to listen.

Well, there it is. Right there. You can’t **** with that. I’d add fellowship.

EDIT – I still can’t swear?! Dagnabbit! I faiirly punched those last few keys!

Question OP, do you wear body armour when out riding? eg Anything other than helmet at gloves?

Just getting some basic, protection sorted can turn a little tumble into a non event, and then you start to forget about the crashing and concentrate on the riding. Chances are, you probably are stiff as a stiff on the bike, nervous and hence you’re never going to be able to ride soothly and progressively. Watch the real fast riders, they make it look effortless because they are so fluid and smooth, working their mass with the terrain, adjusting their body position to stay in the dynamic centre of the bike (rather than the purely geometric one).

Even if you ride slowly, eventually, you’re going to fall off, and if you ride too slowly and falteringly, you’ll actually fall off more! It’s not about pushing the absolute limits, it’s learning how to set a sensible pace for any given bit of terrain, a flowing pace that gives you time to react to the un-expected, but is fast enough that you can easily work with the bike across that terrain!

As mentioned, specific coaching sesion will help set you on the right path, doesn’t need to be any extreme terrain, Tony at UKbikeskills will start with just getting you to ride round a stick on a flat grass field and that’s enough for him to be able to get a handle on your good and bad habits, and home in on the “95%” improvement items! (ie the things that if you start learning to do them will make 95% difference straight away)

I love to ride.
I ride what I am comfortable with.
I try not to fall off, mostly successful.
I have been wearing elbow and knee pads for the past 2 years, and only managed to need the use of them once.
If I get hurt to badly it would have serious financial implications re: not being able to work.
Take it easy, and enjoy what you’re doing.
None of this ‘You have to fall off or you’re not progressing’ shite.
Chill. Get outside, with a bike just adds to the fun.

I used to laugh about falls, pushing myself and having spills. I then had a couple of skills session with Great Rock (Ed Oxley). These brought my riding on. However I then had a big accident and broke my elbow. I was riding quickly but inside I knew I’d not been paying attention.

After healing I had a session with the aforementioned Jedi who brought not just my skills on but mainly helped me in my mind! I still bottle things I know I’m capable of riding, but mainly because I ride solo and I’m currently self employed so can’t miss work. However I enjoy my riding more now. I’ve also bought a fat bike recently and tend to “just ride” without seeking out the really tricky stuff.

To summarise, skills and enjoy it!

On the days when you’re feeling good, seek out the challenging trails. On days when you’re feeling less confident, go for the easier stuff that you know you can ride as it will help your confidence.

On the surface that sounds like good advice. But it can lead to you doubting yourself. Am I feeling confident enough today? what if I’m not? Maybe I should leave it until a better time …
By all means give yourself the option of leaving the technical stuff out if you’re really not feeling it, sometimes that is the harder thing to do but sometimes (lets say most of the time) you just have to silence your demons and remind your inner doubting self who is boss, that you’ve done this before and let your unconscious brain take over and drop in. This is the way to build confidence that a) you can do it and b) your nagging doubts are unfounded and should not be trusted*

* up to a point obvs!! don’t drop into Rampage if you can’t handle a 1 foot drop!

I was reflecting on the comments from the OP about “near misses” last night, just after my front wheel had slipped and nearly dumped me on my arse!

There seem to be those who positively relish those scary moments. You can hear them whooping and hollering as they skip down the trail cheating disaster with every turn. Those people tend to be fast as they keep pushing the limits, looking for that thrill. But, much like the OP, I just find those moments to be an annoying reminder of the basic stupidity of the activity I love. A reminder that, really, it’s just a matter of time before something goes wrong and I find myself back in A&E again. I had three trips to A&E in the space of 15 months (a couple of fractures, a dislocated elbow and a deep gash) and I didn’t enjoy any of them. So, these near misses do tend to make me question whether the fun is really worth it.

On the plus side, it’s been two years since my last trip to A&E, so I can convince myself that I’m doing something different now and I may not have another bad crash again. But I could just be deluding myself!

OP I think you are right, you do need therapy, or at least could benefit massively from a couple of sessions.
I coach folk (rock climbing and mtb) and a lot of it involves helping them with psych issues, whether they recognise them or not. After 15 years I’m still acutely aware of just how complex the human mind is, and how little expertise I have compared to a decent psychologist or therapist in CBT. I’ve been for psych sessions myself out of curiosity, and they’ve helped me massively, increased my respect for psychologists and my wariness of ‘have a go’ amateur ones (many in coaching). It’s a great pity that there’s so much stigma about seeing a shrink (and mental health in general). The root of the issues you mention are likely to do with your core values, expectations/needs of the ego, and not the bicycle handling skills where they currently manifest. PM me if you want any recommendations for good psychologists who offer performance coaching.