afternoon all.for the past 5 years,i have been trying to teach myself how to play the guitar(have had a few guitar lessons,but when they started to talk theory,was completely lost.+unfortunately cannot afford lessons at the moment,due to being unemployed!!!) ,but i absolutely suck at playing the damn thing!!!i have been learning from reading tab,in guitarist,total guitar magazine e.t.c.the guitar just doesn't make any sense to me(i think i suffer with musical dyslexia!!!)and i loose motivation to practice(had put up another forum question,relating to how to get motivated to ride my bike),so end up not practising for weeks!!!i do not want to quit the guitar though,as i love it,and always will.i would be very grateful for any advice/tips,as this is driving me nuts!!!thank you for your time!!! p.s i have uploaded some youtube footage of my guitar attempts at http://www.youtube.com/user/racefaceec90 if anyone is interested in seeing my inadequate guitar skills.(i uploaded them in the hope that guitarists could give some constructive criticism,about how i could improve!!!).jeeeze i've just read all of this,sorry for droning on for so long!!!thanks again for your time!!! 😀

Hmmm…having watched the first minute or so of your "Nothing Else Matters" I wouldn't say you were bad at all. You clearly have the ability to play. It depends how you want to improve and if there's a particular style you want to be able to play.

My advice…keep at it. Just keep playing. Try playing along with tracks you love and know really well. If you don't know how to play them either look online for tabs/chords or (even better) try to work it out for yourself. The latter will make you a much better guitarist in teh long run. If you end up playing with a band you'll be much better equipped to just jam along in a particular "key" (sorry, some theory slipped in there). I think just playing and learning the songs you like and enjoy actually teaches you a lot without you realising it. If you do go back to have lessons you'll be surprised at what you have learnt but just didn't know theory existed for it. It's a shame that too many people get put off music and playing an instrument because teachers jump right in there with the theory. Yes, it can help but it's far from essential.

There are loads of great tuition videos on youtube for all styles of playing so if you have something in mind, just do a quick search and you will get loads of results.

Guitars are a great thing to have. Just picking one up and strumming out a few chords always helps to unwind.

Most importantly, have fun playing your guitar!

Edit: One more thing…you'll help yourself get better by recording your playing and watching or listening back to it. You'll hear the mistakes you make (especially if it's a song you know well) and be able to fix it next time you play.

Edit 2: Motivation…I think this comes back to setting goals for yourself. Pick your favourite tune ever and tell yourself that you're going to learn it. If it's something with a number of guitar parts why not record each of them individually and layer them up. This might require some recording software but Audacity has multitrack capabilities and is free. As I don't have aband to play with at the moment I'm finding this option a very good motivator. If you have any friends that play as well why not try to arrange some sort of jam with pre-decided songs. Then you'll have to learn them otherwise you'll look the fool for not knowing them 😉

I'm not a guitarist, although I have played the guitar, bass and loads of other instruments.

My advice would be not to look at where you are putting your fingers. In the video you are looking down at your hands/fingers a lot, try not looking, and you will pick up a feel for it.

Wish I could play the guitar like you.

thanks for taking the time to reply guitarmanjon(and for watching my attempt on youtube).i will definitely follow your advice(there are some great guitarists and lessons on youtube).my biggist problem is that i want to play stuff that is way out of my league to actually play(eric johnson/steve vai e.t.c)i cannot play fast to save my life!!!as for theory,i would love to learn some,but i really get lost,trying to understand it!!!

thank you milkie,that is very kind of you 😀 i seriously think that you are being modest about your own guitar skills :wink:.thank you for replying,i will try not to look at the guitar so much when i do play.

There are specific exercises for improving speed. One thing most people don't realise though is that accuracy is as importnant, if not more important, than speed. One thing that would really grind my gears if I had any is guys in guitar shops trying to play fast stuff but failing because they just don't hit the right notes. Sounds messy and everyone thinks you're a tool. It's better to play something well and slower than to play it at speed and badly. A lot of Vai's stuff actually sounds quite good at slower speeds showing that he's not just trying to crack out 300 notes per second.

Tom Morello, of Rage Against the Machine, used to spend 8 hours a day working on speed and accuracy. He's pretty fast so clearly practise does make perfect.

If you do a search for speed and accuracy exercises you'll likely come across a lot. Most will repeat themselves from one teacher to another. Best way to start is to pick two or 3 exercises and really work on them for a few weeks. Look up 'alternate picking' exercises too. A word of caution though…going all out on these exercises straight away can really make your fingers hurt and possibly even damage them so take it easy to begin with. Maybe find a track that you'd like to be able to play but you think is too fast. Try to learn it at a slower pace and record. Practise it daily along with some speed/accuracy exercises and see how it improves over time. Joe Satriani's Always With Me, Always With You is a nice one to learn. None too difficult, some lovely techniques to whet your appetite and speeds that aren't impossible. Practising the backing chords will really improve your picking too! I might even have a backing track for this song that I can somehow send to you. And the video is proper cheesy too 😀

This site is pretty good IMO

http://www.justinguitar.com/

You can learn songs you like by recording them on the computer and listening to each phrase over and over again really carefully til you can hear all the notes and work out what they all are – then practising playing it. Hard work but you start to get a feel for what the guitarist's fingers are doing just by listening to the music.

ah thanks guitarmanjon!!!i must admit,that i did start to try and learn,always with me,always with you,but that wide fret stretcch at the beginning takes some getting used to,just like the beginning of surfin'(i cannot play any of these,just beginning to learn them!!!)i will do what you suggested about speed/accuracy lessons on youtube!!!thank you 😀

Why not join a group, get a bass player and jam – much more motivating!

would like to say thank you everyone for all your tips,(if i don't reply back,not being rude,just that i have payg broadband widget,and when it costs £25 for 7gb,cannot afford to be online all the time!!!)so just wanted to thank everyone now!!! 😀

I'd say your playing looks quite promising 🙂

Dunno if you've done this already, but there are plug-ins around that allow you to save flv (youtube) files from your browser for later playback ('fraid I dunno what the best free one is at the moment, tho')

Apologies if it's a bit obvious, but to add to guitarmanjon's info, practice what you find hard, not what you can already do – isolate what's going wrong and practice 'til it's perfect (as mentioned, starting slowly..). One tip I've heard is practice not til you can get it right, but until you never get it wrong (tho' it might drive you 'round the bend in the meantime !)

Also – it's far harder to correct an ingrained habit later, than getting it right to begin with. One guy I had a lesson or two with tried to get me to swap from a kinda economy picking style to alternate picking 'cos I'd occasionally hit things twice. Probably a better approach would have been to have fixed my existing method – relearning to alternate pick screwed my picking up for about 10 years, and even now my hand occasionally gets hung up between the two styles as if it doesn't know which it's doing. (I think it's Marty Friedman that has some utter abortion of a right hand style, but it works !)

I didn't pick up much theory for years but wish I had – it's useful in that, for a lot of rock, if you know what the melody is, you can generally work out what the chords might be (or vice versa). It can get a lot more complicated than that (blues does something a bit different), but it's a starting point.

For example, a lot of rock (old-school metal in particular) throws in the blues scale in with what's effectively the major scale (Metallica and Rush certainly do). A lot of neoclassical stuff (Yngwie, etc) uses harmonic minor and diminished scales, which is why they sound so distinctive – there's quite a few Rush tunes that might too (probably the run at the beginning of La Villa Strangiato for example) – 'fraid my ear/memory isn't good enough to know offhand.

The one nugget of theory that I didn't see written anywhere for years is how you form chords from a scale – have a search for 'harmonised scale'. There's decent explanation here:
http://www.torvund.net/guitar/index.php?page=Th_harmscale

Once you've got your head round that, you'll see how the chords for an awful lot of songs fit together.

I think it's Marty Friedman that has some utter abortion of a right hand style, but it works !

Yeah, his picking style is really weird. But it certainly does work! Had the opportunity to meet him at a gig and had my ticket signed by him – his wrist even does that weird bend when he's signing!

cheers jond,thanks for watching my guitar attempts.i have just downloaded,the page,you kindly linked in your reply.will read up on that!!!(i also downloaded realplayer.that enables you to download youtube videos!!!)thanks also tyger for that guitar site link,i will def check it out!!!also molegrips and mogrim,thanks for your ideas,i just need to find a bass player to ask!!!with windows media player,you can slow it down by 50%,which i found useful,when i was(still)learning sanitarium.i still suck at the solos though!!! 😀

Practice – its as simple as that! With practice you can become a good even great guitarist. However, just picking up the guitar and strumming aimlessly will get you nowhere. Have a goal and aim for it, such as a song you like. Brake it down into manageable parts and work on these until they're perfect. Then put them together and play the whole song until its perfect. Work on timing (use a metronome) and rythym. Record yourself and play back and compare to the original (I use a Zoom H4). In the end it comes down to practice- a friend's brother became one of the top if not the top guitarist in the world but I remember him saying that for long periods his brother used to practice 12 hours a day!!
Good luck and don't give up 🙂

Having just bought a guitar and started again after School taught me some time ago….. I think your guitar playing is amazing and if I was half as good, I'd be happy.

Now stop winging and get on with it and pull yourself together. 😆

thank you hitman and coolhandluke,will definitely follow all the advice!!!i actually haven't played my guitar for about 4-5 days,feel guilty for not practicing 😳

ps coolhandluke,thanks for your kind comment.man i've no doubt that you will kick my arse on the guitar before too long!!!thanks again!!! 😀

raceface
no problem, TBH a lot of what you say resonates with me
I spent a long time worrying about my playing, convinced I would never get better, until I worked out a practice regime which worked wonders
went out with a girl for a while who was a trained classical musician and got a real boost when she was amazed at my "musical ability and improvisation skills"!!
the added confidence (which I've always lacked) has allowed me to relax and now I enjoy my music more, although I practice a lot less at the moment 🙁

to be honest,i do not have a practice routine,that is one of my biggest problems.i just do not have any structure,in what,and how to practice(does that make sense?).i also have problems focusing on any exercises i.e hammer on's/pull off's exercises,for any length of time,as my mind starts wandering!!!man it is so annoying!!! 😡

>trained classical musician
A mate's wife is one, can he get her to to play along to anything without music ? No. Bizarre if you ask me…

>I worked out a practice regime which worked wonders
Hitman – any useful hints ?

I've generally got something I'm working on, but I suffer a similar sort of thing to a degree – most of my practice tends to be just trying to improve/maintain technique. I spent a lot of time record-copying/transcribing years ago, while it helps fluency and linking things up it doesn't necessarily help learning the fingerboard.
Tho' having said that, I wound up transcribing a few tunes/solos recently for a covers band I was in with some mates, having an aim in mind does help somewhat. In fact, that was the fun bit, most of the tunes we did otherwise were party fodder…

i'm currently trying to learn testify,by srv.guitarist tabbed it a few years ago!!!but can i get any further than the first 5 or 6 bars,can i f***!!!(sorry!!!)i just try and play the beginning,but then loose interest,so it's a repeating cycle!!!start on the track,play the beginning,loose interest,stop!!!this applies to nearly everything i try on the guitar.(it just seems that the doorway in my head to music,just doesn't open!!!)if that makes sense.when i watch some people on youtube,the musical part of their brain is wide open(and they can improvise etc easily(it seems!!!)but with me,it feels like trying to decypher hyroglyphics without the rosetta stone!!!sorry to have gone on!!!

As hitman said, you just (!) need to break it into manageable chunks – have a search for 'transcription program', there's probably a few freeware ones worth trying, it's useful if you can put a start and end marker in a track and get it to repeat between 'em..I used to used an old cassette deck which did that, a *very* long time ago..

(I splashed out on something called 'Amazing Slower Downer' for the pc a while back – about 40 quid, but it's a good little tool, probably the best of the bunch at v. slow replay, you can set start and end markers to repeat between, dump a slowed version of the original track to mp3, etc).

I must admit I'd probably find the single note stuff in that track hard to remember. It's basically a bunch of riffing away on the blues scale, but there's no real harmony line running through it to make it memorable. But – breaking it down bit by bit still applies – there's gonna be discrete phrases/groupings of notes in there that he's thinking of, and he's linking them together so it's pretty much one long run. Theres a few pauses in there that help a little to divide it up.
(I'm looking at this one : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48BZjXQAZM )

I guess at a basic level there's a few things re improvisation – one is thinking of a note and knowing where it is automatically on the fretboard (there's some eartraining applications on the web that might help – ie learning how the interval between notes sounds), the other is knowing what scale you can use (ie chords in the tune), plus also set licks – there's a whole lot of standard short phrases/turnarounds in blues based stuff, just knowing those helps in recognising by ear what's being played. Usually they've got set fingerings, too, which helps them have a particular rythmic flavour. Often just listening to a phrase and noting how the notes within it fall out timing-wise is easier to understand than reading tab. For example, I transcribed Kravitz's 'Are You Gonna Go My Way' a while back, and that divides up nicely into short sections that link together – give it a listen and you might see what I mean. I found it easier to work out myself than trying to understand the tab (which was wrong anyway !), tho' there were one or two phrases which were initially a bit harder to get the timing correct on – more practice !

If you listen to any Rush off the first album you'll find the same – the solos are mostly blues 'cliches' hooked together, and it's the timing/combinations/phrasing which make it sound interesting.

If you're struggling to learn the track in terms of losing interest, perhaps find something that is easier to learn – it doesn't necessarily mean easier to play, just something that's easier to remember.

Right, time for supper, crap tv and bed – got back from the gym earlier and I still haven't stuffed my face !

Dear Mr Face,

What irks me most is your insistance that you can't play which you clearly can.

Instead of posting videos here hoping for someone to massage your ego why not practice instead.

Why do you insist on trying to learn things that have taken very talented people a lifetime to commit to tape in a few days. Why not spend your lifetime developing your own technique/songwriting etc.

I look at theory as the map to unlocking my own style/technique. Personally I can't play Metallica, Vai, Satch or Johnson nor have I any desire too. I play like a reasonable me on a good day and a shit me on other days. I am totally happy playing like me. no one else plays like me and I like everything that I have ever recorded from chords to solos.

You have the perfect time to overhaul your playing if you wish as you are unemployed. so get your finger out. get up early and practice for an hour, go for a walk/ride, prectice for another hour. if at the end of a week you haven't improved you are doing something wrong.

So to wrap this up

Play like you
Practice, Practice, Practice
Be honest about you abilities
Man the **** up
There is no short cut to talent

Lots of love

Plum

thanks jond,that was some very helpful advice!!!i do not use the slow down facility on windows media player,as much as i should(it's very helpful,to slow down tricky passages!!!)have also thought about,one of those tascam portasound cd players(that you can slow down the speed also)thanks man!!! plumber,thanks for your comments,i can appreciate what you are saying(but i wasn't trying to massage my ego,as you said,and i apologize if you think,thats what i'm about)i really was asking for advice,and have had some great replies from people.i am certainly going to follow it all!!!now i have to take my washing to the laundrette haha!!!thanks again!!! 😀

Why not join a group, get a bass player and jam – much more motivating!

This.

What's the point of being good if you are just gonna sit in your bedroom widdling away? You're not really bad at all by the way, which I think you know.

race face

ignore plumber and his negative comments

TBH I didnt watch yr video as have no sound on laptop at the mo!!
But as I siad before I understand yr frustration

First to clarify I'm not a great musician but I have managed to improve considerably especially in the last 2 years or so, when I would have always described myself as the probably the least talented person I know (one of two people not allowed to practice recorder in school!!)

The secret is really practice and focused practice at that. If you ever get the chance read Malcolm Gladwell's "The Outliers". Basic premise of the book – there is no such think as genius – all so called geniuses/experts in their field had a number of common factors one of which was the amount of time they had spent practicing their career/art/skill – the key figure was 10,000 hours before they got to expert level (roughly 10 years). Only person who bucked this trend was Bobby Fischer who became a chess grandmaster after 9 years!!

Anyway I digress 🙂

Jond talks a lot of sense and my practice routine is based on similar lines.

My day would go something like:

6am – guitar practice 1 hour before work
Tune the guitar by ear – check with accurate tuner (intellitouch) and repeat until spot on
Warm-up exercises – warm-up, coordination and ear-training (basic Guitar Workout – David Mead)
Practice of basic fingerpicking patterns/strumming patterns
Practice of a part of a song – normally 4-6 bars until perfect/near perfect (using zoom H4 to record and play back)

Evening – 2-4 hours
Beginning same as above – tune, warm-up, either fingerpicking or strumming patterns, then work on a song (always have 3 songs I'm learning but that is the maximum)
Use Zoom H4 to record and play back, which I think helps develop your ear
One song is me working out a song by listening to it or watching and listening on You Tube – work on this in the last hour
Use Tab Edit software to tab the song and play back and listen to it, also FLV video player and a free slow downer programme (but as you get used to doing this there's no need for it)

Would play all weekend as well – 4-6 hours

I think thats about it and hope this helps 🙂

Would say that I'm not playing much at the moment but the above has helped me be able to pick up the guitar and to begin to play what's in my head. Before I was worried about scales and the fingerboard but none of that matters if you know how to play the sound you want.

Keep playing and remember with practice, you can be as good as you want to be. 🙂

that's some awesome advice hitman,thank you very much!!!i really wasn't trying to big up my ego,when i added my youtube page link.i just wanted to give people the opportunity,to see how i actually play(and all the mistakes i make)so they might offer some constructive advice,as to improvement.as my grandfather said "if you don't ask,you don't get!!!"so that is why i asked the question here,as i knew,that a lot of cyclists,also play the guitar!!!i really do appreciate all the replies to my question,it has made me think about,how to start doing some"constructive" practice,as opposed to aimless noodeling!!! 😀

no problem, if you're looking for any specific instruction books/music/tab then I may be able to loan you as long as you return them 🙂
Should say that there's loads of good stuff on you tube in lots of different styles but then I'm sure you know that already
One other thing – get yr guitar set-up by a pro, makes a huge difference
good luck and have fun

Hmmmm.
You may think you suck, but you're still a lot better than me. 😥 😉

I started in my teens but gave up in my late twenties because I got to a point where I stopped improving and got bored and frustrated.
I've been dabbling again for a couple of years now, but again seem stuck at the same level.
Not too fussed as I only play for the therapeutic value, but it'd be nice to make some progress.

first of all, YOU DON'T SUCK

I've been playing on and off for about 10 years and I suck, it's just about practice and enjoying yourself, unless you're playing with Dave Gilmour then just kep deoing it for the enjoyment and experiment with different styles and effects.

you don't have to be good at something to enjoy it

Busking will solve both your problems.

just got back in,after going to swindon to get a guitar strap,shaeller straplocks,strings,and fast fret.i think that the guitar deserves a treat,as i've neglected it for a while,(but flippin awful weather!!!)i would just like to thank everyone who has replied to my post!!!your advice has been most helpful,would just like to reiterate that i only can play 3 tracks all the way through,and that is after 5 years,trying to teach myself(that is why i think i suck!!!)the motivation to practice is a difficult thing to,make regular,in your daily life,and that was one of the reasons,i asked this question(to get some idea,of how other guitarists,keep their motivation,and how they structure a practice routine!!!)

just got back in,after going to swindon to get a guitar strap,

Rock and Roll Music by any chance? That's the shop I frequent.

You're not as bad as you make out

You've had a lot of good advice here re practise.

Second the recommendation for the justinguitar.com website.

Don't get frustrated because you can't play a Vai or Satriani tune all the way through, they took years to be able to do that. Even in their slow numbers they'll throw in a lightening fast run or some mental chord with a huge stretch. Why not pick a less technical guitarists work to start with? Personally just now I'm transcribing the solos from BB King's The Thrill has Gone. Simple pentatonic stuff generally in one position so easy to transcribe but playing it correctly is teaching me a lot about about phrasing.

I've given up trying to copy the likes of Satriani and like plumber advised am just trying to be the best me that I can be.

As far a theory goes you don't need that much to get started. Learn the pentatonic scale all over the neck, then learn the minor/major scale all over the neck (its the same notes and patterns). Once you've done this practice finding the key a tune is in by ear (just play the same section of every major or minor key till you find one that sounds right). Then learn a few licks thoroughly. String the licks together and add in some notes from the scales you've just learnt. Suddenly you're improvising. You now have everything you need in order to jam over just about any track.

If you like the blues start there because that's where rock and jazz started and its easy to get started leaning a few licks and improvising (see justinguitar.com). From blues you can go towards jazz or rock.

Maybe we should meet up for a jam or a bike ride if you're located in Wiltshire.

thanks uponthedowns.would love to jam with you/go on a bike ride sometime,(i live in devizes/unfortunately do not have a car).the shop i went to today was near total bikes(along the same road).will follow the advice you gave about learning some scales all around the neck(i know the pentatonic one haha!!!)if you want to contact me my e mail is adamibanezcunningham@hotmail.co.uk .again thank you for taking the time to reply,i've had some great advice from people!!! 😀