To us, it’s an obscure shift of tax law. To the City, it’s the heist of the century

Dont know if this has been posted – But WTF?

I read that this morning. Scary.

Basically they’re bringing our tax laws in line with Belize/the Caymen Islands. Only us’little people’ will be bothered by the nastiness of contributing to society. Nothing so vulgar for the ultra-rich eh?

But the bankers, according to the news, are “absolutely furious” about the token gesture bank levy

Could you all bend over please?

Ah yes was sent the link to his actual post on his website re this… shocking tbh if it’s all true.

Surely if it is this should get blown into the open and they should be pressed on it? Isn’t this what the opposition govt is meant to do?

Incredibly depressing if its true…

Basically a large corporation can setup an office in a tax haven, claim the tax back on the costs of doing so, then any money routed through that offshore company will no additional tax when entering the UK??

it that right?!?

Surely if it is this should get blown into the open and they should be pressed on it? Isn’t this what the opposition govt is meant to do?

Except that the only opposition also has to suck up to the City so aren’t going to make too much fuss about it.

HH – that’s how I read it. They could claim a tax (cashback!) reduction on money that the UK had never seen.

So how do we make a fuss about it? Seems so wrong that they can just do that and the general public dont really know about it until its done or too late.

I think Egypt has the right idea…

…by giving the city of London a competitive advantage, surely this is a good thing?

As their are two sides to every story – read this: Bank levy now I dont understand either & I have no paricular political allegiance.. On the face of it, it would seem hes taking with one hand & giving with the other? WTF is going on?

he has quietly been plotting with banks and businesses to engineer the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor and middle to the ultra-rich that this country has seen in a century.

🙄

Yeah because this is clearly designed to help the economy and not big business / tory cronies make money.

Lets see who thought this scheme up…

“Almost all the members of the seven committees the government set up “to provide strategic oversight of the development of corporate tax policy” are corporate executives. Among them are representatives of Vodafone, Tesco, BP, British American Tobacco and several of the major banks: HSBC, Santander, Standard Chartered, Citigroup, Schroders, RBS and Barclays.”

Hmmm and of course they are not the type of multinational company who would benefit from this at all….

Mrlebowski – the bank levy is f-all (1/14th of a percent), just a ploy to make us think they’re being tough. £800 million vs the £6 billion they will pay in bonuses!

Anyone who actually knows about this and isn’t stupidly skewed towards either side care to comment? Sounds bad but I don’t trust Monbiot any more than I trust Dave.

Mrlebowski – the bank levy is f-all (1/14th of a percent), just a ploy to make us think they’re being tough. £800 million vs the £6 billion they will pay in bonuses

And of that £6 billion, how much income tax will it generate for the UK???

..by giving the city of London a competitive advantage, surely this is a good thing?

Did you read the article?

The new legislation will create a powerful incentive to shift business out of this country and into nations with lower corporate tax rates. Any UK business that doesn’t outsource its staff or funnel its earnings through a tax haven will find itself with an extra competitive disadvantage.

I fail to see how companies moving to other countries or avoiding paying any tax in the UK gives London a competitive advantage. The complete opposite in fact.

A lot hopefully BB (although I bet there’s a loop hole to avoid a lot of tax on those bonuses too!), I was just trying to give some perspective to the amounts.

And of that £6 billion, how much income tax will it generate for the UK???

It is extremely complex issue this – anyone care to work those numbers out & then see what the balance sheet looks like or would we prefer to make knee-jerk reactions without considering all the facts?

Mrlebowski, there’s a rule that you can apply here… Basically, if a government introduces a new tax or restriction on an industry, you can tell how effective it is by looking at share prices. If they don’t go down, it’s because the industry was expecting worse.

Well thats one way of looking at it but I would prefer something a little accurate..

The article is rubbish, exemption for branch profits is the norm in many European countries, viz: Germany, France and the Netherlands to name a few, so poorly researched scaremongering.

so poorly researched scaremongering

The whole article? I take it you are fairly knowledgable on this stuff then mefty? I don’t have a clue you see which is why when I read an article like that i think WTF!! :S

The article is rubbish, exemption for branch profits is the norm in many European countries, viz: Germany, France and the Netherlands to name a few, so poorly researched scaremongering.

Do you perhaps have a personal interest in all this?

And of that £6 billion, how much income tax will it generate for the UK???

Income tax is just one form of taxation. If you look at the total tax paid, including VAT and fuel duty for instance, you’ll find people with smaller salaries pay more tax.

The questions you really need to ask is something like…

1 person earning 20 million pounds vs 1000 people earning 20k – which would generate more tax overall?

Tax on large salaries is not a justifcation for large salaries.

poorly researched scaremongering

from George Monbiot?!!! Surely not?!!!!! Are you mad?!!! The man who keeps telling us, due to Global Warming, we’ll all be underwater before tomorrow lunchtime?!!!! I can’t believe such a thing!!! 😉

There’s probably some truth in this. Otherwise the Grurdniap’s lawyers wouldn’t have let them run it

Jobs will go abroad as companies shift operations overseas to make a large tax saving, while still offsetting the expense of running those foreign offices.

My own, non-banking, company would probably be better off firing us and expanding our German offices.

I guess I have more than a reasonable knowledge having worked in the area for 25 years, I am sure there are bit and pieces that are correct but the overall conclusion is flawed. My guess, and it is very much a guess, is that this will be revenue positive, as credit systems are easier to abuse than exemptions systems.

Can you explain a bit more mefty?

(Honestly really interested not just pressing you to prove anything!)

🙂

Grauniad complaining about overseas tax deals ? Shurely shome mishtake ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/help/insideguardian/2008/mar/06/isgoingoffshoregoingoffme

An example where it could well be revenue positive is cross border transactions can be set up so that a number of companies are regarded as paying the same tax in a foreign country thus generating a credit for tax you have not really paid, these don’t work in exemption systems

similar discussion on bikeradar, (with an ounce more explanation)
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12756789&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

“Vodafone, Tesco, BP, British American Tobacco and several of the major banks: HSBC, Santander, Standard Chartered, Citigroup, Schroders, RBS and Barclays”

With the exception of Tesco and possibly RBS, none of these run a very UK-centric organisation, eg Vodafone produces about 10% of its revenues from the UK etc etc. I don’t see how more of its operations and therefore jobs will go abroad, other than if they don’t see further revenue potential in the UK – which is a different matter.

This issue covers re-patriation of funds earned by foreign branches (not subsidiaries) of a UK entity. I am no expert on tax law but I would struggle to see how a UK-entity could earn profits in the UK and not declare them for tax, channel them to a “tax haven” abroad and then re-patriate back again thus avoiding UK corporate tax.

George’s point that activities will move offshore to a lower tax regime (or something like that) is a little bit diluted by his previous point that the UK government is progressively lowering corporation tax!

Sorry, I’m no fan of this government but that article is poorly argued. There may be something we should be concerned about, but I can’t see what it is from that!

Does anyone actually know the rough amount of tax currently raised by the corporate tax catch-up proposed for abolition?

Sorry, I’m no fan of this government but that article is poorly argued. There may be something we should be concerned about, but I can’t see what it is from that!

Perhaps the OP will tell us ?

The Bikeradar thread is worth a read.

Seems this is not a new idea & neither a strictly Tory idea either..

Seems this is not a new idea & neither a strictly Tory idea either..

But we won’t let that stand in the way of a good Tory bashing…

An article by Moonbat! Enough said. Really the sooner people start avoiding all the labour-luvvie stuff in Guardian, the happier they will be.

The tories are crap, but even in their crappest they are no where near as inept, corrupt, self-serving or puerile as the Labour party, sadly the only other option it seems in this “democracy” of ours.

so can anyone actually say what the change will be to uk tax revenues + or -?

and

The tories are crap, but even in their crappest they are no where near as inept, corrupt, self-serving or puerile as the Labour party

id say they are just as bad as each other and just as beholden to the bankers

in what way will this help to shelter us from another global crash would be a better question

The bankers? Who are these pantomime villains? All of them, or just the ones that screwed up and we bailed out?

Considering the “bankers” pay a whole lot of the tax that us-social security junkies in UK depend on, just to exist these days.

I’d say with this in mind it’s probably wise to not bite the hand that feeds you. Rich bankers/people – They aren’t going away, but they can move away.

I hate to stick up for the government but after six months I think it’s a tad unfair to compare that on a par with 13 years of economic and social destruction.

13 years of economic and social destruction

you make it sound like post blitz coventry

id say the bankers are the ones hooked on social welfare bail-outs

you make it sound like post blitz coventry

Well you wouldn’t be too far wrong 😆