According to the SMMT car production in the UK is at the same level as it was in 2007, so why the panic?
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I don't understand why the car makers are in trouble...
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Posted 3 years ago #
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Presumably because nobody is buying them?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Production does not equal sales.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I heard on the news that SAAB haven't made a profit since 2001!
Little wonder they are in so much trouble, GM are desperate to get rid of them so I can't see them being around for long if they are left on their own!
Posted 3 years ago # -
I heard on the news that SAAB haven't made a profit since 2001!
Little wonder they are in so much trouble, GM are desperate to get rid of them so I can't see them being around for long if they are left on their own!
funny you should mention that..Posted 3 years ago # -
but look at the gradient of the curves. In 2007 they are level, in 2009 almost vertical...
Posted 3 years ago # -
I heard on the news that SAAB haven't made a profit since 2001!
But then again they haven't made a new model since about 1991, really.
Posted 3 years ago # -
But how come that sudden jump in 2008?
Hadn't any of them noticed that credit had stopped? After all isn't GM a major player in the loans industry? or have they sold that as well.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well SAAB must have an enormous advertising budget to presuade people to pay big money for a 1998 Vauxhall Vextra with some nasty chrome stick on bits.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Production is being stopped by many as they have loads lying around so as already mentioned doesn't represent sales.
Posted 3 years ago # -
SAAB's in trouble because of GM! We all remember the days when SAAB built quality cars their way and made decent profits - frankly I with the Swedish courts running the show its likely it will be the end of the marque in three months time according to reports.
Posted 3 years ago # -
After all isn't GM a major player in the loans industry?
GM as a business is basically f$%^ked. It's essentially selling cars to pay the pensions of former workers.
Posted 3 years ago # -
SAAb is in trouble now because it would have gone bust about 15 years ago without GM - there aren't any niche manufacturers making cars any more because they can't afford to develop and get them approved in the markets they make the money in.
but back to it - why was there a jump in production last year when they weren't selling the cars they could make then?
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have no sympathy for the car manufacturers. They have been making far too many versions of essentially the same car for far too long. They have been too driven by fashion and have relied on people buying pretty much the same car simply re-packaged time and time again. Furthermore, they have invested huge amounts of time and money developing the latest technology only to then hold it back and drip feed the advances into the industry over months or years to ensure they always have something 'new' to offer each year. My sympathies lie with the employees, the majority having little or no influence on the management decisions that have created this mess. Personally think it's good that society has finally realised how ridiculous it has been by perpetuating this fashion trend by the manufacturers. Rant over.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I'm still to be convinced that slimming down the car industry in general, with less new cars being produced, is actually a bad thing. Unfortunately I don't suppose it will last in the long term.
Posted 3 years ago # -
After all isn't GM a major player in the loans industry? or have they sold that as well.
Yep. GMAC. They are properly in the sh*t and have been knocking loudly on the door of the last and present US gov't for cash. Last year GMAC instigated a programme to withdraw or hike the cost (i.e. interest rates) of credit available to 3,500 car dealerships across Europe in nan attempt to save in excess of $4bn.
So that's 3,500 businesses across Europe that have been f***ed by GMAC's mess.
Posted 3 years ago # -
If they offered clearance pruces then the stock pile would shrink surely.and i don't mean like our local Vauxhall dealer.Credit crunch only 16k instead of 22k.Wow wheres my cheque book.
Posted 3 years ago # -
...If they offered clearance pruces then the stock pile would shrink surely.....
But the excuses given by car industry are,
1) Selling off cars cheap devalues their brand.
2) If the new cars in the stockpile are sold off cheap people won't buy new cars off the production line.
Of course both arguments (as a consumer) seem pretty poor.
1) Going out of business is pretty poor for a companies image, but then again because car companies are large scale employers governments can't let them go out of business. A win-win for the car companies I guess.
2) A percentage of **** all is still **** all. Those cars in the stockpile are dead money unless they are sold.
Posted 3 years ago # -
why pay full price for a new car when in 3 years it will be worth 25% of that value.
Posted 3 years ago # -
...why pay full price for a new car when in 3 years it will be worth 25% of that value.....
Because some folk want new cars, regardless of value in later years.
Luckily such folk are still about as otherwise I wouldn't have been able to get my last 'new' car so cheap.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I hear the sound of chickens coming home to roost. There's been overcapacity in car production for years and the shortage of cheap money has removed the safety net. Maybe if the manufacturers had taken action sooner they'd be in better shape to survive this recession.
Agree with sootyandjim going out of business with thousands of units of unsold stock sitting next the docks is madness. They seem to think the laws of supply and demand don't apply to them. If you can't get your goods sold then drop the price until they will.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Agree with sootyandjim going out of business with thousands of units of unsold stock sitting next the docks is madness. They seem to think the laws of supply and demand don't apply to them. If you can't get your goods sold then drop the price until they will.
Or do a rover and go bust and all your stock ends up in the car supermarkets!
the sad things is lots of people are going to lose their livelehood if GM etc does fold.Posted 3 years ago # -
I hate the way the car industy works. I want reliability,reliability,reliability,reliability - not lots of useless extras that cost a ton to fix when they go wrong.
'Citroen - full of technology' now that scares the sh*t out of me.
Posted 3 years ago # -
'Citroen - full of technology'
and lovingly built by the french! That's the scary bit!Posted 3 years ago # -
you cant beat a good recession to give inefficient industries a rollocking good shakedown.
Yes there will be blood and it's obviously terrible for those getting laid off, but* it will improve the health of our economy as a whole greatly.
*I got in trouble on here not that long ago applauding some company standing up to recalcitrant unions and firing their staff... I wont make that mistake again
Posted 3 years ago # -
'Citroen - full of technology' now that scares the sh*t out of me.
It would have me too but the French are a damn sight better at building cars now than they used to be.
(Happy Citroen C4 owner. Yes the 'full of technology' car).
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well at least the french backed their own industries in the 80's unlike our lot who shut them all down i suppose.
Posted 3 years ago # -
french backed their own industries in the 80's
propping-up I think is the word you're looking for doc.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I got in trouble on here not that long ago applauding some company standing up to recalcitrant unions and firing their staff... I wont make that mistake again
In trouble with whom? I'd be quite proud of getting into trouble with the most obvious people I can think of on here...Posted 3 years ago # -
Well at least france are propping up their own industries and looking after their own workforce. If things do really take a dive honda toyota nissan etc could easily pull the plug on the uk to look after their home interests. Britain is in a very shaky and exposed position at the moment as we don't own many of our industries anymore so it's not in our hands!- thanks largely to the 80's policy of privatisation and selling everything off for short term gain!
We have made alot of our money in the last 20 years in the finacial sector also and that has gone spectacularly tits up!there may be trouble ahead....
Posted 3 years ago # -
... thanks largely to the 80's policy of privatisation and selling everything off for short term gain!....
Which lets be fair was based on the back of not wanting a return to the policy of the unions in the 70's to strike over every niff naff and trivia 'problem' and thus burden the state with large workforces of ineffective employees in nationlised industries with an equally large amount of real estate and plant to support.
Of course the government is currently supporting the car industry so that hasn't been entirely successful but at least they're not all out on strike over the type of biscuits sold in the canteen.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Oh yeah i aggree, 70's uk cars were awful( my dad had a brown allegro estate-yuk!) and the unions do have themselves to blame from the red robbo walk out on strike in a instant because they werent given their fag breaks. Arthur scargill what an idiot taking the miners out on strike in the spring when coal is not needed!
I aggree the unions needed bringing down a peg or two but the state is now burdened with millions of people who are not working/on "the sick" which has got to be worse for all of us in the end.Posted 3 years ago # -
why pay full price for a new car when in 3 years it will be worth 25% of that value.
Exactly.
We bought a 3 year old Focus Zetec Estate from a local used car dealers 2 weeks ago. It's a small, well established place with a good local reputation and they always seem to cream off the best condition, lowest milage cars to sell, from 2-5 years old. The salesman told us they'd had their busiest December ever and they nearly ran out of stock to sell!Why?
Well, said Focus has 16k on the clock, one owner, utterly IMMACULATE, even still smells new, full history: It cost £16,000-ish new and we paid £6000 which is 62.5% depreciation that the previous owner has paid for us...! Well, they paid more than that because the garage has made a tidy profit, of that you can be sure!New cars are a mugs game, and I think people are now realising that chucking 10 grand down the drain to have a new 09 plate is plain stupid.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The obvious answer to your question is because no one buying a car at the moment.
Another point is that because at the bottom end the margins are tiny; (the list price for a basic Kia Picanto is GBP 5,995 and list price for the more mainstream Ford Ka is GBP 7,945). With tiny margins you have to sell in huge volumes to make a profit and going back to my original point non one is buying cars. This makes it hard for manufacturers.
GM and Ford have their own issues to cope with as well...
Closing thought:
TrekTop Fuel 9.9 SSL list price GBP 4,500
Kia Picanto list price GBP 5,995Posted 3 years ago # -
Another point is that because at the bottom end the margins are tiny; (the list price for a basic Kia Picanto is GBP 5,995 and list price for the more mainstream Ford Ka is GBP 7,945).
You've quoted 'list prices' which provides little illumination on bottom end margins.
Because the Kia Picanto is priced nearly £2K doesn't mean that it costs £2K less to produce than the Ford Ka. In fact its possible that the Ford Ka is cheaper to produce because of the huge amount of trickle down technology used in its production from other vehicles in the Ford range, paid for already from sales of those other vehicles. It could be that the reason price the Ka higher than the Picanto is purely down to where Ford believe they should pitch it to protect brand image or just at the price point they believe the market will accept.
Posted 3 years ago #
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