jools……….how about if it were a british national commiting the same crime in another country.
what would the outcome be then.

are we too leniant on crime?

‘The Sun exists so that thick people can believe they read a newspaper’

-The words of a friend of mine, who writes for that great British institution…

i notice that alongside that article, the Sun also has this:

Comical Looks of Britain’s ugliest dog have landed him a home

I think it’s wonderful that we have such fine upstanding organs as this. Where would this country be, without The Sun, eh?

Well, the point that the understandably bitter father, Mr Houston, eloquently made in an interview that I heard was that Mr Ibrahim is saying that he has a basic human right to be with his family in the UK, yet he has denied Mr Houston the very same through his actions. He also suggested that Mr Ibrahim had fathered children to help his continued residency in the UK.

Mr Ibrahim has allegedly shown no remorse or offered an apology to Mr Houston.

It’s a sad and tragic story but it has nothing to do with his nationality, his colour or his ethnicity despite what the rightwing media might lead you to believe. Mr Ibrahim has served his sentence and is free to return to Iraq with his family, although that in itself is complicated due to him being a member of a persecuted minority in his own country. He is also now free to stay in the UK.

If the decision is wrong then the law must be wrong. We either change the law or accept its shortfalls; it’s not a one size fits all kind of thing.

Personally, I think the decision to allow him to stay is the right one.

fred………mrs ton has just weed herself laughing at that dog thing…. 😆

Well I resent the allegation that I am to blame for your wife’s incontinence, quite frankly. 😐

You’ll be hearing from my lawyers in the morning.

that dog makes me feel a bit sick 😕

There is no doubt in my mind that the man is question is an odious little turd, who deserves some time inside.

However one of the things that is great about this country (as opposed to other less open states) is that the law is the law, it’s not for bending, once a matter comes to court there are checks and balances to make sure the law is applied properly it’s not perfect but it’s pretty good. If judges started bending the law on a whim that would be pretty disasterous.

That is a very very very ugly dog. Jeebus has it got three legs as well?

that dog makes me feel a bit sick

More intelligent than your average Sun reader though.

wThe sun is a poor rag but most of that articel is the words of the father

“Amy was my only child… due to medical reasons I am unable to have any more children.

“Amy was and is my family, so my point is, it is my right to a family life that has been deprived and not Mr Ibrahim’s.

“Mr Ibrahim claims to be a family man but if it’s your actions that define who you are and not your words, then offences for possession of drugs, burglary, harassment, damage to property and theft as well as driving convictions and my daughter’s death, you could argue that Mr Ibrahim is a negative influence as a role model as a father.

“I cannot understand by letting Mr Ibrahim remain in the UK what benefits he could bring to society.

“Had he shown some real remorse for what he had done and not committed any more crimes, I could accept that this was just an accident.

“On the evening of November 23 2003 Mr Ibrahim struck Amy, he didn’t kill her outright, she was still conscious.

“She was fully aware what was happening around her even though she had the full weight of the engine block of the car on top of her, she was crying because she was frightened and in a lot of pain … he could have at least tried to help.
Given the person had the family after the event we could have easily have avoided this scenario.
It does nto sit cmfortably with me that this person – who may rehabilitate but it seems unlikely- gets to stay for his family despite removing this right from a law abiding member of society.
I have to be honest he would not be on this earth if he did this to me and left me without my kids. I would require alot of remorse from him for his actions to persuade me otherwise. Cant beleieve my love of my kids instantly strip sme of all my liberla lefty tendencies – primal sadly guess why we have neutral impartial peole to decid eon these things.
The sun is an awfull rag
It is being used locally to stir up racial tension which is not helpful FWIW.

That dog makes Ann Widecombe look attractive

how about if it were a british national commiting the same crime in another country

Well you’d be at the mercy of that country’s legal system and would be punished accordingly.

I think the leniency issue is valid …4 months in prison for fleeing the scene of an accident in which a young girl was killed does seem lenient, especially if the child is your daughter.

I think that some kind of face-to-face meeting between the 2 parties would allow the deprived father to express his grief and anger and seek closure.

As a parent with a child the same age the latter part of the quote is heartbreaking. I find it inconceivable that anyone could leave the scene.

I’ll go with the decision of the British Justice System, Ton.

Because I’ve got faith in that
you realy cannot think of any act by the justice system you think was wrong as you have faith- I am so looking forward to quoting this back to you – scurrie soff to rozzers with guns thread.

some are totally out of touch with reality

given your posts here i assume you find many people are not in touch with your version of reality

The fact the git showed no remorse is a very bad sign imho. Personally I would have him inside being punished for his crime, then shipped back to Iraq but hey ho that’s me 😀

‘I think that some kind of face-to-face meeting between the 2 parties would allow the deprived father to express his grief and anger and seek closure.’

Unless he shows no remorse there too. That would go down well.

surfer – I’ve just read that quote too …the poor thing, how utterly sad and heartbreaking for her loved ones.

Sirlickalot – yes, I see what you mean.

I would trust teh justice sytem rather than the sun

How do you guys know he showed no remorse? Any other info other than the sun article – which is clearly intended to be inflammatory and partial and to stir up emotions exactly as it has done with you guys

Its all part of the Murdoch agenda of string up anti immigration anti asylumn seeker feelings.

How do you guys know he showed no remorse?

From the Father as he was interviewed on the news.

TJ – the father said that he had been stood 6′ from him when he had the opportunity to show remorse and did not do so. Heresay I know but he sounded perfectly level & reliable as he reported that.

Right. 🙄

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339142/Iraqi-asylum-seeker-Aso-Mohammed-Ibrahim-let-girl-12-die-right-stay-UK.html

😐

Cant believe my love of my kids instantly strip some of all my liberal lefty tendencies – primal sadly guess why we have neutral impartial peole to decide on these things.

I don’t have kids, and am fairly liberal on a lot of things, but I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if I saw him dead. The fact that he left the scene is what angers me the most. I hit a girl of a similar age when I was about 18. I sat on the pavement shaking. But then again, I’m a British national, was driving legally, and without a string of offences behind me.

I am so looking forward to quoting this back to you – scurrie soff to rozzers with guns thread.

Notice I said British JUSTICE system… 😉

S’important, that bit.

Being that none of us are possessed of the full facts of this entire case, and the asylum issue, I think it’s probbly best to go with the Court’s decision, unless we know more than them. No?

Two separate things though innit? Bloke’s a bit of a scrote, runs down a little girl, flees, she dies. We don’t know the full facts of this case; she may have simply run out in front of him, his brakes may have failed, all sorts. Maybe he just panicked and ran. We don’t know all this do we? All we know is that the courts din’t think he’d killed her deliberately, hence the ‘lenient’ sentence.

It’s very, very sad indeed. I feel so sorry for her poor family. No-one should ever have to go through this.

But the gist of this Sun ‘article’ seems to suggest that as a non-British national, he should either suffer a longer sentence, or be deported back to a country where his Human Rights would be at risk. He’s an Iraqi Kurd; not the luckiest people in history…

The suggestion he had children with someone simply in order to stay here is nothing more than the opinion of the grieving father. Again, we have no idea as to the true nature of his relationship with a British woman. He is the father to two British children. What about their rights? As tragic as the little girl’s death is, is it right to tear a family apart, or send them to a country where they could well suffer persecution or even death simply because of something that wasn’t done deliberately?

Stupid muck-racking inflamatory inciteful gutter press crap from the Sun as usual.

Naranjada

I think that some kind of face-to-face meeting between the 2 parties would allow the deprived father to express his grief and anger and seek closure.

This is done in appropriate cases with very good result. It both allows closure for the bereaved / victims of crime the perpetrators have to face up tho the effects of their crime.

IMO it should be used a lot more than it is

Its all part of the Murdoch agenda of string up anti immigration anti asylumn seeker feelings.

or perhaps what has happened is wrong?
What about the issue TJ ?
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/8742619.Death_crash_asylum_seeker_wins_right_to_stay_in_this_country/
read it here and then talk about the issue eh?
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Judges-let-failed-asylum-seeker.6663142.jp
there you go one from Yorkshire for balance

In fairness Elf, the story appears to be told in a pretty similar fashion in all the media outlets.

TJ – yes I suppose that you know best and I am a bad man for taking a grieving father’s witness as accurate. What a fool I have been.

Elfin:

We gather not fully understanding stuff that requires a bit of thought isn’t exactly your strong point, Ton.

Ouch…….but actually the double negative is contradictory to the intended meaning, whoops.

The Sun is a rotten comic, as many have said deliberatley stirring the racial tension issue. Also very true and relevant is that we don’t know the true story so we are all speculating. However if it was my duaghter under that car I’m not sure what my response would be but probably illegal. Whatever race the perpatrator was. I also think we have a pretty good justice system overall but in a society of 60 million there are bound to be wrongs. It must be so deeply sad if it’s you and you are affected like the father of that poor girl.

Yeah, but with the same overall crappy ‘journalism’, in the examples cited here at least. Not that I’d trust owt with ‘Lancashire’ or Yorkshire’ in their titles… 😉

Lazy sensationalist journalism.

Junkyard – I gave my answer. I have more faith in our justice system 5than in the yellow press.

All those stories you post are from the same press release / press conference and are lazy journalism.

If this is true :

Although he now has two children, there was little evidence to suggest he was living at the same address so could not claim a right to family life, it was argued.

And also the claims that he had a string of convictions, then he should be deported without hesitation IMO.

Iraqis do not have an automatic right to live in the UK, and I see absolutely no reason why Britain should allow an Iraqi criminal to live in the country.

He’s an Iraqi Kurd; not the luckiest people in history…

What has Iraqi Kurd history got to do with this case ffs ?

Iraqi Kurds do not need asylum.

teej, fred, please tell me what is a good trustworthy newspaper to buy.
or a good trustworthy news source.

it seems that the daily mirror, telegraph, mail, express, guardian, independant and times are all running this story.
bloody gutter press eh????? 🙄

Oh, and I think it is “soft leftyism” rather than human rights. Some people who claim to be left-wing, are far too terrified of being labelled “racist” to call for his deportation. Sad but true.

Ouch…….but actually the double negative is contradictory to the intended meaning, whoops.

Touché… 😳 😆

Iraqis do not have an automatic right to live in the UK, and I see absolutely no reason why Britain should allow an Iraqi criminal to live in the country.

What about the father to two British children? Or don’t they, as British citizens, deserve a family life?

Iraqi Kurds do not need asylum.

Hence his failed asylum application.

I have more faith in our justice system 5than in the yellow press.

so do I but I see no reference to what you think of the issue/case but plenty of whay you think of the journalism

it seems that the daily mirror, telegraph, mail, express, guardian, independant and times are all running this story.

They do, but with subtle differences in the way the story is reported.

The Sun’s version is overly emotive and makes a big thing of quoting the dad, which is basically nothing more than the dad’s opinions, but quoted in such a way to add emotional weight to the story. The Guardian doesn’t bother with all that, which is quite frankly irrelevant anyway.

The facts are:

Non-British person who happened to kill someone in a driving incident isn’t sent back to his country of origin as he has a British partner and two kids born in Britain. Court rules he has right to stay under Human Rights legislation.

That’s it basically. Everything else is superfluous really.

Simple facts don’t make for juicy newspaper articles, and long arguing threads on STW, though…

What about the father to two British children? Or don’t they, as British citizens, deserve a family life?

Read my post.

Ref : If this is true

Oh stop fishing Ernie… 😀