Hub choices – can't be that difficult?

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  • Hub choices – can't be that difficult?
  • Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    Hmm, maybe this though answers my question…

    http://www.bike-mailorder.com/Bike-Parts/Wheelsets/Wheel-Set-26-inch-Novatec-black-Notubes-Arch-EX-Disc-black.html

    Works out £260 for the set with Novatec hubs. Pretty cheap considering other options have been looking at £400 to £500.

    Just the issue of how noisy and what engagement is like.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    If I can afford DT, I get DT. I’ve actually got some on the 18T ratchet and some on the 36T, and yep it makes a difference but not one that I actually care about. I’m not going to “upgrade” the other wheels. The alu freehub is a slight pain but they’re tougher than some (ie, Hope). Or maybe just tighter toleranced so there’s less cassette wear or something.

    They’re never very loud but the noise does vary on mine, which could be irritating- sometimes very quiet, sometimes a bit louder, sometimes quiet-loud-quiet-loud as you ride along.

    Reliability can’t be beat though imo, basically a simple design, well made, and well sealed. And 9/10ths easy to work on (the 1/10th is changing the centralmost bearing, which is a bollocks, but needs done very very rarely- longest lived bearing I’ve had in a bike since a un91. Though, parts if you need em are not cheap.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    As always when I shop for stuff, it gets complicated with hundreds of options and nothing quite fits what I want, at least without being stupidly expensive. I can spend weeks trying to decide 😀

    So, hubs needed to the following requirements –

    * 15mm front axle
    * Rear QR 9
    * 6 bolt disc
    * *quiet* ! So no Hope, or anything near as noisy as Hope 😉
    * Steel freehub, or alloy with steel protective insert things (no, I’m not binning barely used cassettes to swap to XT to prevent eating swiss cheese casssettes).
    * Decent engagement / pick up (moving from my old cheap Formula based wheels, a key thing I want is better pick up as it’s slow and then has an annoying metallic loud ‘clunk’ before it engages).
    * Reliably and easy to service / good reputation.
    * Can be laced up to some Arch EX rims

    Had a short list but there are issues with them all…

    DT Swiss 350 – 18 points of engagement but “upgradable” to 36. Is 18 a problem? Reviews say slow pick up. Alloy freehub. Quiet though.

    Stans 3.30 – Alloy freehub. Medium level of noise apparently.

    American Classic 130 & 225 – Quieter and rear has the steel insert things which is nice, but reviews say it has very slow pick up and various reliability issues, along with issues getting parts etc, so gone off these now.

    I’d consider Chris King if it wasn’t for the insane price and that they’re apparently very noisy also.

    Loads of other choices and reviewing more at the moment, though more limited by who offers what at various wheel builders. Unless I just buy the parts and find a bearded wizard to put it all together.

    Any decent stuff recommended that fits the above?

    What’s Novatec stuff like? I see they have those steel insert things also. Noisy though? quick engagement? and who would do a build with Stans rims?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    DT or American Classic for my money.

    I don’t get the pick up thing.

    I’ve owned Chris Kings, Pro 2s, DT 240s with 18 and 36t ratchets and American Classic 225s, they’re all perfectly adequate, I can’t tell any real world benefit at all from increased pick up. Marketing bollocks.

    DTs get louder if there’s no grease on the star ratchets, cover them in a bit of grease and they go silent again. I don’t mind the noise though, nowhere near as buzzy as a Pro2 or a King.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    Perhaps I shouldn’t worry so much about the alloy freehub. Just my CB hub got chomped massively.

    Maybe it can be DIY’d http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/diy-alloy-freehub-re-inforcement

    No solution there really, but if I was any kind of engineering / machining type I think I’d have a nice little business set up there making freehub guards 😀

    stoney
    Member

    Chris Kings al the way……Especailly from here;

    http://www.avt.bike/WebStore/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=AVT&gclid=CLKume-K8JQCFROI1Qod-hyCqg

    Allways got them from here, the last set i got for the Lynskey winter bike arrived here in 3 days ! thats quicker than our internal RM (sometimes) 😆

    Cost wise, its like buying 1 and get 1 free!. I`ve just bought the XD rear hub and paid £263 sterling.
    As for noise, the Buzz is actually quite nice and if you put (literally) a few drops of any fully sinthetic engine oil (mobil 1) in them, they go REALLY quiet.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Of the hubs I’ve owned, Kings are a distant last.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    Too expensive, too noisy. Nice I’m sure though.

    Anyway, DT Swiss has been recommended to me the most by friends and on forums, and reviews seem good and support is supposedly good. I’ll just have to deal with the alloy freehub.

    Got some on order being built with the Arch EX rims then.

    Black wheels to match the black pikes to go on my black c456 with black everything else. Stealth bike even more stealthy 😉

    Premier Icon sweaman2
    Subscriber

    Another vote for DT. Sweamrs has some Kings and they are just more picky than my DT240’s. Thy definitely need a bit more TLC to function at their best where as the DT240’s just keep on running.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    Shimano seems to tick all your boxes? Pick a budget…

    Not the lightest, and cup and cone/ loose ball bearings, but lightweight / cartridge only wasn’t on the list?

    I’ve done bugger all with my all weathers commuter/ road bike/ cx bike in 10,000 miles and 3.5 years. SLX hubs. There’s a perceptible rumble in the rear if I grip the chainstay with the spiining wheel off the ground and concentrate, so it’s about time I got some more grease in them.

    Does make me wonder quite why I spent the extra on DT240s on the much less often used hardtail. They’re nice, but given that^…

    While I’m on the 240s, I bought the 36T star ratchet upgrade with the wheels, thinking I’d slot them in as soon as. Rode them, turns out I coudn’t care less about a “mere” 18T. 36T ratchet rings still in the toolbax.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    njee, what grease do you use on the star ratchets?

    ac282
    Member

    AMs have been more reliable than Dt 240s for me.

    IIRC reliability issues were a long time ago and now they seem as good as anything else out there.

    b r
    Member

    Works out £260 for the set with Novatec hubs. Pretty cheap considering other options have been looking at £400 to £500.

    Wasn’t there a post recently about the inability to get spares for these?

    And, just buy Hope and be done with. FWIW my DT240s hub is as noisy as my Hope Evo.

    Duffer
    Member

    To be fair, Hope meets all of those requirements, except the noise thing. They’re easy to service, spares are plentiful, they can be adapted for whatever axle standard you wish and they are very robust. They even come with a steel freehub body if you ask for one.

    I recommend you buy Hope and pack the pawls with grease to quieten them, if you must.

    jonk
    Member

    Duffer + 1

    Hob Nob
    Member

    Second hand DT240S.

    Some one was selling a set of dt 240 wheels in the classifieds with your required axle sizes.

    I have both dt 240s and hadley hubs 18 points of engagement v 72, not massively noticeable but the service intervals and reliability of both is great!

    Hope hubs don’t have to be noisy, Rock’n’Roll Super Web grease is the answer.

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    Shimano XT.
    M756 rear.
    M758 front.
    Set of cone spanners.
    Pot of decent grease.

    Lovely quiet steel freehub.

    Spend the rest on male / female grooming products.

    GolfChick
    Member

    I’d like to input that hope hubs are a lot more noisy than Chris King but I cant change the ridiculous price of them and I cant recommend anything therefore because both myself and my fiancee have chris king hubs!

    True precision – quality, instant pick-up, totally silent – switchable axles (for the future) whats not to love?

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    Shimano … centerlock … no. Just no. (Even with adapters)

    Cup and cone, cone spanners and fiddling with balls and gunk, messing with preload to get them right, no. Fine, they last forever if you want to give them loads of love and care, cleaning and regreasing them every few rides, but screw that. Give me swap in and out cartridge bearings any day 😉

    Anyway, as said above, gone for the DT.

    350, cheaper than 240 but I don’t really need the benefits of the 240 for the extra they cost.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    If shimano were as good as they used to be, I’d totaly recommend them- I’ve got an exage in the attic that’s 20 years old and outlived more rims than I can count. But modern Shimano won’t do that, no chance.

    The nice thing about DT and some others is that it could be the last hub you buy- it’ll take whatever the next bullshit axle standard Fox come up with next, 16.50b front and 12.75 rear with a SRAM 12-speed freehub. And the service life is basically only limited by metal fatigue. There’s probably others that’s true of, not convinced it’s true of my pro 2s but they give it a good stab too.

    james
    Member

    “Rear QR 9”
    You mean QR 10, 9 only exists up front
    Whether you mean 5mm quick release skewer or 10mm thru-bolt I don’t know

    “Is 18 a problem”
    Your formula will be 15 or 16. So basically the same

    ” I can’t tell any real world benefit at all from increased pick up. Marketing bollocks”
    Disagree completely
    If you’re ‘just’* riding around them fine, I don’t mean bimbling or pootling, but if you’re ‘only’ pedalling in circles everywhere then you’ll not notice it
    If you’re jabbing part strokes in, trying to not strike pedals into obstacles in between needing to not pedal in order to hold better balance through the harder bits then it becomes apparant
    Its more noticable between 16 and 32, than 32 and 60 or 72**
    Going back to 16 after my 32 and 60 kept breaking is always a let down, its that free non-resistance playey bit before it engages, especially in a low gear that throws off my balance as I try to ‘ratchet’ pedal my way through a sticky bit
    **i’ve yet to break the 72 though its not been along the hub breaker trail yet

    “they last forever if you want to give them loads of love and care, cleaning and regreasing them every few rides”
    Only if you’ve already trashed them?
    Part of the problem is many of them don’t have a lot of grease in from new. If you pack them with grease from new of nearly new before they wear, they’re easy to set the bearings right and leave them be for long periods of time

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    james – Member

    If you’re jabbing part strokes in, trying to not strike pedals into obstacles in between needing to not pedal in order to hold better balance through the harder bits

    I do all that. It just makes no practical difference for me. The maximum difference between 10 degree and 20 degree before engagement is about 2cm of foot movement

    james
    Member

    It depends what gear you’re in though
    In a low gear its enough to make balancing while the freehub engages harder

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I honestly don’t find it does, the movements are so trivial. Like I say, I can feel the difference, it just makes no difference to my riding.

    OTOH the 36T ratchet is several grams lighter, so I had to have it 😆

    Premier Icon coolhandluke
    Subscriber

    King aren’t loud like Hope, it’s a nice noise too, unlike Hope. dT’s are quiet. Nice noise too.

    I’ve got King and DT 240 wheels, currently preferring DT but the pick up on King is better. It’s on technical uphill stuff where it’s noticeable.

    Kings are nicer made than the DT’s and the machining on the hub is exquisite compared to DT, which isn’t too shabby mind, but only marginally nicer than Hope.

    Get the DT’s with the 10mm thru axel on the rear would be my advice too rather than QR.

    Premier Icon grenosteve
    Subscriber

    Buy some local produce! Get hope…

    Provided the hub shell doesn’t crack, Hope hubs are fully re-buildable (easily) and will last a long, long, long time (even if they do crack, Hope will give you a new hub for nothing).

    My blue pro 2 hubs have been on 4 bikes/3 sets of rims over nearly 8 years….

    The noise is cool by the way. 😛
    As others have said, certain grease will make the freehub quieter.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    Pick up issues I find on the old Formula is where like described above I’m on twisting trails, navigating around or up over trees, lumps, rocks and such, and may stop pedalling for part and then quickly back on the power, but there’s play in there until the hub ‘clunks’ and I get drive. It’s no biggy, just a little niggling and slightly annoying when in a group as the clunk is loud compared to those I’m riding with. Magnified a bit perhaps by the hollow sound if a c456 frame 😉

    james – Member
    “Rear QR 9”
    You mean QR 10, 9 only exists up front
    Whether you mean 5mm quick release skewer or 10mm thru-bolt I don’t know

    Yes, 10 I meant. For either skewer or bolt through, though going for bolt through now I know you can get those bolt through QR.

    As said though, it’s all convertible on the DT anyway.

    I’ve no issues with my novatech road hubs, seem perfectly adequate. And they’re cheap too so I’ve no worries aboutlongevity or spares as I’d just buy another one and rebuild/replace.

    As long as weight (or fashion) isn’t a criteria, then why not shimano?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    njee, what grease do you use on the star ratchets?

    Usually the DT stuff, although if I’m at home whatever’s to hand – generally the Shimano stuff, you only need a very small amount.

    I honestly don’t find it does, the movements are so trivial. Like I say, I can feel the difference, it just makes no difference to my riding.

    Agreed, but admittedly I’m not really into the ‘ratchet’ pedaling technique to get through sections, and don’t have the super lower gears where it perhaps becomes noticeable.

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