My point exactly. All the real issues that unions were set up to address have been err addressed. Their only real function now is to pick a fight. All of the advice you suggest unions can help give can be got by very easily by any number of other means such as citizens advice or the Internet.

Yes if we got rid of them and were no longer organised employers would not change a think would they.

I think my first question would have been what is the meeting about / agenda!

Bushwacked, which bit of Corus if you don't mind me asking? i get my release papers tomorrow from Tewkesbury/Shotton.

My experience of Unions hasn't been positive, like so many things, to much politics and point scoring goes on.

Djglover – that was my first, second…… twentieth questions

Mrmo – Tewkesbury (ironically where my boss lives 🙁 ).

Your wife could and should claim the parking fine back on expenses from her company. Its even tax allowable I think.

Good luck.

Some unions are better than others, but
1 You earn more in a unionised workplace
Average earnings are around 8% higher in unionised workplaces.
2 You get more annual leave in a unionised workplace
The average trade union member in the uk gets 29 days annual leave a year, compared with 23 days for
non-unionised workers.
3 You get better training
Workers in unionised workplaces are more likely to receive job-related training.
4 You get more maternity leave or parental leave
Unionised workplaces are 12% more likely to have parental policies in place, which are more generous than
the statutory minimum.
5 You're more likely to get equal pay for work of equal value
Workplaces with union recognition are 20% more likely to have an equal opportunities policy in place.
Despite equal pay legislation, women currently earn only 83p for every £1 earned by a man.
6 You're less likely to be sacked
Trade union members are only half as likely to be sacked as non-members.
7 You're less likely to be discriminated against in terms of age, disability, race or sex
Black and asian trade unionists earn 32% more than their non-unionised colleagues. Trade unions have
campaigned for tougher anti-discrimination laws, which are coming into effect in 2003, making it illegal to
discriminate on the grounds of religion or belief, marital or family status, sexual orientation or gender
reassignment.
8 You're less likely to be injured at work
All employers have a legal duty to provide a safe workplace and safe equipment and working methods, but
unionised workplaces have health and safety officers to make sure the employer sticks to their legal
obligations.
9 If you get injured at work, you'll get better compensation
Unions won over £321 million in legal compensation for people who were injured or became ill at work in
2000.

Based on my personal observations of UNITE, I'd steer clear.

Let us know what happens, and best of luck.

Looking on the bright side – maybe they want to promote you or offer you a better job ? 😀

You say you are a Financial Services Salesman and that you have done nothing wrong. I think I see the problem.

It's bonus discussion time, innit?

😉

You work in financial services, so youre responsible for the failure of the global ecconomy.

I dont think youre about to get a medal or a Jim will fix it badge.

Jim will fix it badge

going all RP on us project?

Mal thank you. You just illustrated my point perfectly. Not one of the things you list there highlights a benefit for the business that employs that unionised employee. Of course unions fight for their members to get better terms and conditions that's their job. But just because they negotiate those terms doesn't mean that they are making the company more eficient better run or more competitive, they only serve the interests of their members.

Oh and by the way I am in the top 7% of earners in the uk as are most ofmy friends and none of us have ever been in a union.

I said FS not banking!

He's spotted how brilliant you are and is going to offer you a great big pay rise and a go on his secretary.

Financial services and banking,like a paying for a prostitute,its a short term feeling of euphoria,then its all over and you wonder was it worth it.

Banking is like haveing a **** you leave a deposit with both.

Seriously best wishes for tomorrow.

Not one of the things you list there highlights a benefit for the business that employs that unionised employee.

Why exactly is that a problem? Businesses have no fiduciary responsibility to their employees, only the shareholders. Although I would agree that the best outcomes are where co-operation exists between both sides.

Not one of the things you list there highlights a benefit for the business that employs that unionised employee

Apart from having a healthier, safer, better trained, happier and therefore more productive workforce.

🙂

Hope tomorrow goes well.

samuri got closest to a possible option 4 – a promotion. Ok I know it's a long shot these days, but you never know…

Bushwacked, is her name sara? in which case how is she and the kid?

Im a Free marketeer. My economic philosophy is not tied to any particular political ideology.

I don't even know where to begin with this particular lollacaust but as long as you're happy believing it then that's cool.

I hope all is well for you Bushwacked and that witnesses weren't necessary.

Redundancy needs all sorts of hoops to be jumped thru – so I doubt its that.

Not so. They can simply march you off site and as long as they bung you more cash than you could hope to recover by winning a wrongful dismissal case its job done.

I don't even know where to begin with this particular lollacaust but as long as you're happy believing it then that's cool.

No, do go on, professor HeathenWoods. Im fascinated by your presumption about my politics.

Anyway, I hope Bushwacked is able to get to his workstation and fill us in…rather than have a bin-bag thrust in his paws and an escort off the premises.

uponthedowns – Member

Redundancy needs all sorts of hoops to be jumped thru – so I doubt its that.

Not so. They can simply march you off site and as long as they bung you more cash than you could hope to recover by winning a wrongful dismissal case its job done.

You think?,…when an employer is trying to save money?

No, do go on, professor HeathenWoods. Im fascinated by your presumption about my politics.

Hell no, you tell me how a "free marketeer" is unconnected to any form of political ideology and how markets and political contexts are unconnected.

I tell you what, just to start with, what does "free" refer to? Free from what? Butterflies? Aardvarks? Saturn? I'm certainly looking forward to what you the market should – in your view – be free from which has no connection to politics…

stoner I think it is reasonable to state that those who are right wing believe in a small state, personal responsibility, limited /no regulation and therefore free from state intervention market economics.

Stoner is one of them anarcho-capitalists, iirc. Never mind the bollox, here's Adam Smith!

More importantly…OP…update ?

Really if you are can you start a thread on it PLEASE.

Just been reading the thread.

Must agree that taking contemporanious notes is vital. A court will accept those as evidence as long as they are writtne at the time.

However, not the main reason for posting, I was just pondering Stoners "freemarketeer" claim. Does that not go to the very essence of the political divide in this country? Surely thats what its all about… The Sod you Jacks (i'm all right) v Beer and Sandwiches brigade ?

Seems to me that Afganhistan is a free market in the truest sense, and I believe that it is known as feudalism.

You think?,…when an employer is trying to save money?

Yes Cynic-al. Its happened to me and a number of my colleagues. Even if they bung you a years salary they're still saving in the long run.

In all my posts on economics in here I've advocated allowing markets to settle prices except in those few areas where social good cannot be solved by market actors. What I abhor is interference in active markets by the government for the sake of it. It invariably induces the formation of black markets or moves transactions outside of the legislative area. If anyone thinks that a Tobin tax or 50% Income tax is going to fix anything they should look at the case studies. The politics of spite do not fix anything. I, paradoxically, believe in total taxation levels remaining roughly where they are, not lower, but they should be made much more progressive in nature (I wont go into it here, but you can read it on other posts Ive made).

I am not right wing. I believe in state schools, health care free at the point of delivery for all, nationalised transport infrastructure and unemployment benefit. All because in none of these areas does the market provide effective services to the individual. In these areas, though the market CAN provide cost effective service to the state. Private medical companies competing to sell services to the NHS that the NHS then administers to the user, if done correctly*, should provide the best value for money to the state.

I disklike unions because they distort the market under the cover of protection that they have in law. If that legal protection wasnt there, then the market would sort it out by firing the strikers in the interest of keeping the economic corporate entity alive and efficient even if smaller. Too many times the unions see the scale of employment as a right or due and they strike for it. That kills companies by not allowing them to adapt to market changes.

None of that makes me neither right nor left wing.

* To date it hasnt particularly.

Unions
My workplace started a "No Smoking In The Grounds" policy and threatened disciplinary action against anyone smoking in the grounds, including in their own cars. Given the grounds are quite extensive, I asked my union rep what would be the response if either someone was attacked whilst leaving the grounds, or quoted fear of attack as a defence if disciplined (it's winter, it's dark, there have been muggings in the car parks). No answer. On any of the 3 times I asked.
Invited to the AGM – asked if there was an agenda available told "someone was coming to talk about pensions". Asked about an agenda and minutes. No reply. Asked about querying the safety of staff in the car parks. No reply.
Unions. Great value if keeping some lazy fekwit in a job is what it's all about.

Ah, Stoner will not be provoked, but here's some Thoreau. 😉

"'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, 'That government is best which governs not at all'; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."

Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience.

Back on topic: hope it turns out ok

Surely thats what its all about… The Sod you Jacks (i'm all right) v Beer and Sandwiches brigade ?

that's what the politically tribal would want you to believe. Personal political/economic philosophy doesnt have to be all or nothing manifesto stuff you know.

comrade, Ive told you before about that Thoreau waffle – you'll go all feral on us and be living in a hut if you carry on 😉

A hut? Who needs that kind of infrastructure? 😀

stoners politics thread hijack

what happened with the ops meeting has he had it yet

was it about too much time spent on this site?

pffft.
Just killing time 'till the OP gets back and fills us in.