I paid a trainer for some weights workouts, and I told him it was all about fat loss and becoming leaner.

He’s given me various exercises, but the weights start at 12 reps of fairly easy weight, then 90 seconds rest, then 10 of the next increment, then 8 then 8 – with 90s inbetween each one.

Sound reasonable for someone whose aim is lean-ness? (and yes I know, diet etc etc) He keeps making references to size, but I dont’ want to be big of course. But is it a case of getting slightly bigger first to help shift the fat?

Opinions?

Well bigger muscles result in more energy use so less fat – though appetite likely to increase. I weight train but it’s my cycling that helps me control my weight.

It’s already worked.

Your wallet is lighter.

Frankly, he’s the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.

But…it does seem about right, if it was pure strength and size you were going after it would be less reps and more weight. Saying that, there is an increasing school of thought that working big muscle groups with big weights does wonders for weight loss. Think weighted squats and the like.

The advice always seems to be contradictory, but I though the principle was that pushing big weights makes you strong, which is what the 5×5 program was based on. Although it’s not 5×5 because once you’re through the first few weeks you start doing warmup sets with lower weights, so it ends up looking more like what you’ve been prescribed anyway.

You won’t get big without eating through, that’s always true. So the worst you can do it have very inefficient muscle (in terms of what you can lift for a given lean body mass).

I’d just go with what the trainer said. What you’re asking is “I think at some point in the future I might be Monet or Van Gough, how can I be a better painter”. Whereas the reality is more like “I have a packet of crayola, can I at least be Banksy?”. And once you get there and plateau, maybe re-evaluate your goals and routine.

That’s a pyramid workout. as long as you’re upping the weight as the reps decrease, then you should be pretty burst by the end of it.

And don’t worry about gaining mass. The amount of calories you need to consume to do that mean you’re not about to turn into peak Arnie any time soon

Frankly, he’s the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.

He is a trainer, he might be extremely knowledgeable or he might have done a short course that gives him a meaningless certificate in an unregulated job.

Have a chat with him, ask him to explain how his plan works towards your goals, then you have to make a judgement call on if his advice is worth following or not.

I would expect a fair bit more detail, goals and progress measurement, I hope there is a lot more to his advice than your brief description.

Frankly, he’s the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.

…

Saying that, there is an increasing school of thought that working big muscle groups with big weights does wonders for weight loss

Fat loss but muscle gain.

Have you done much/any gym work in the past? In not i’d have said 4 sets of each exercise seems 1 too many as a starting point, and i’d have limited the rest periods to 60s to keep heart rate up.

Building muscle is certainly not a bad thing, it will increase the rate you burn calories at all other times of the day, not just when you are working out.

You know the saying, “Abs are made in the kitchen”?

professional

Considering some of the advice I have heard handed out by so called “professional trainers” I would be very reluctant to use that word.

My 2p…

The old saying “Abs are made in the kitchen” is bang on. I’d be looking at cutting out refined carbs and putting myself in a slight caloric deficit.

But gym work wise…if I wanted to lean out, I’d be hitting a couple of big compound movements for 5 working sets of 5 reps for the first half of my workout then some type of metcon. (eg a circuit that involves a 250m row, then KB swings, then thrusters, then burpees.)

I wouldn’t be doing what appears to a Hypertrophy workout using drop sets.

My current programming is similar to what you have been prescribed (higher reps, drop sets, low rest periods) but the desired outcome is putting on muscle size.

a weights routine is just that.
it needs to keep you interested and working.
there are no specific workouts that burn fat

you need to burn calories working, change your metabolism and eat less

Fat loss but muscle gain.

True. But OP has said he wants to be “leaner”. My experience of people who say that is that the actual weight is almost irrelevant, they want to look a certain way and that way, whether they realise or not, is normally less fat and more muscle.

unge

Frankly, he’s the professional so knows better than fat, middle aged IT works on here.

BillOddie

Considering some of the advice I have heard handed out by so called “professional trainers” I would be very reluctant to use that word.

MSP

He is a trainer, he might be extremely knowledgeable or he might have done a short course that gives him a meaningless certificate in an unregulated job.

I would just like to add that I know two personal trainers and the sum total of their professional training and qualifications is zero. What they know about lifting weights and personal training is what they were told by the people they met in the gym, people who trained them and youtube.

They also have a lifestyle which includes taking copious amounts of steroids, fat burning pills and lying in bed all day post workout. Buyer beware.

Think weighted squats and the like

Yeah, to be honest I was expecting those for leg day. I did squats on a machine with a sliding inclined back rest which I wasn’t that keen on tbh – hard to keep my feet in place and made my knees a bit funny. I was meant to be hurting after leg day but I ended up feeling lightly warmed up.

My experience of people who say that is that the actual weight is almost irrelevant

Well no, I don’t care about how I look (see Capt America pictures for evidence). I just want to loose fat to cycle better. I didn’t say ‘lighter’ because I want to keep cycling power.

The old saying “Abs are made in the kitchen” is bang on. I’d be looking at cutting out refined carbs and putting myself in a slight caloric deficit.

You new here? Suffice to say this has been covered to some length on the forum 🙂

Anyway the main aim for me was being shown proper technique to do the exercises. I can change the reps/weights if I want.

you want low intensity exersise to burn fat. Couple that with reduced sugar and calorie intake will see you loose weight. Weights will help with muscle strength and tone but won’t be effective as light cardio to burn calories.

He’s given me various exercises, but the weights start at 12 reps of fairly easy weight, then 90 seconds rest, then 10 of the next increment, then 8 then 8 – with 90s inbetween each one.

But is it a case of getting slightly bigger first to help shift the fat?

Light weights and high reps won’t make you any bigger so don’t worry. Heavy deadlifts, squats and surplus calories might though.

I was meant to be hurting after leg day but I ended up feeling lightly warmed up.

More weights then my boy! Find a weight you can squat 8 times. Do a set to failure (10 reps or so), 60 secs rest, repeat, 60 secs rest, repeat. And when I say failure I mean you squat and can’t physically get back up, none of this “it hurts, I’ll stop”, that’ll happen at rep 7, you’v got 3 or 4 more in the locker after that. Do this with a bar and not a machine as it will work your core more. Try to avoid stairs the next day…

Saying all that, if you just want to lose weight then it’s diet that will do it. Eat less.

you want low intensity exersise to burn fat

There’s a huge amount of research that says that’s not at all correct.

You new here? Suffice to say this has been covered to some length on the forum

Not at all…the amount of BS spouted by arm chair dietitians is also breath taking.

Thee is a school of thought that argues lifting small reps of very heavy weights early in the morning burns fat all day. look at lifts that use the whole body – dead lifts and squats being the main two.

Mark Sissons swears by it, and he is ripped at age 60 odd

warton

Mark Sissons swears by it, and he is ripped at age 60 odd

He’s also on TRT.

Saying all that, if you just want to lose weight then it’s diet that will do it.

Suffice to say, I’m doing that too.

Also getting older and my upper body is getting stiffer, less efficient and less mobile.

Cardio is taken care of by biking and running of course.

Hi, I am a Level 4 Master PT, Strength and Conditining Coach, nutritionist etc etc….
Also a XC/Marathon MTB racer with 10 years experience
If you want any advice or guidance I’m happy to help.
Email in profile

There’s a huge amount of research that says that’s not at all correct.

Strictly speaking he was right, low intensity exercise will burn fat directly as a fuel source.
The research you refer to works by creating a bigger calorie burn and raising metabolism for the rest of the day which in turn burns more fat.

Its a bit like the LSD vs Intensity argument for cycle training. If you are time limited then go for the bang for buck approach, but the large volume of low intensity work is going to be better if you’ve got the time for it.

Find a weight you can squat 8 times. Do a set to failure (10 reps or so), 60 secs rest, repeat, 60 secs rest, repeat. And when I say failure I mean you squat and can’t physically get back up, none of this “it hurts, I’ll stop”, that’ll happen at rep 7, you’v got 3 or 4 more in the locker after that. Do this with a bar and not a machine as it will work your core more. Try to avoid stairs the next day…

I suggest building up to this level intensity over quite a few months!

I remember falling over a barbell I thought I had stepped over after working my legs so hard they would only allow my to shuffle along afterwards.

Today was the last installment of my training instruction, shoulder day.

Shoulders feel pretty unimpressed by it, tbh. Didn’t even sweat. Unsure if I just need to up weights or what… I was hoping to be shown how to do things like squats and deadlifts and whatnot…

Shoulders feel pretty unimpressed by it, tbh. Didn’t even sweat. Unsure if I just need to up weights or what… I was hoping to be shown how to do things like squats and deadlifts and whatnot…

how much you hurt after is a fairly poor measure of how successful a workout is. That pain often means longer recovery times and more chance of over training and injury.

I visited the doctor yesterday and among other things discussed weight. He is adamant that “we are what we eat” and weight loss is all about calorie intake. That and not eating carbs, any carbs. I think they might have different calories from the calories in his first comment.
Weight training is unlikely to reduce your weight, in fact it is likely to increase.
Exercise in any shape or form is going to burn fat.
Look carefully at what you’re eating and don’t kid yourself.

Thought it was generally accepted as impossible to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time? So assuming you’re at a calorific deficit effectively any weighted exercise is simply a means to burn calories. And presumably moving heavy objects is an effective way to.

Suppose there may still be some strength gains. The only thing to consider is are you likely to be more fatigued and do less work compared to a less intense activity you might do for longer e.g. exercise bike or treadmill?

Please excuse my ignorance on this, but surely lifting weights, especially compound exercises like squats isn’t a great thing to do with a calorie deficit. I’m probably wrong. It just seems a bit counter-intuitive. Don’t you need the energy to push the weight and risk injury if you don’t have the reserves to do so.

I did the 5×5 a few years ago and ate quite a lot. Just got stronger as opposed to gaining or losing much weight.

Weights (in my limited experience) work well for strength and tone. More effective weight loss via diet and aerobic style excersize. You could fhrow in some protein shakes too. So my 2p is yup it’s all part of the game but a relatively small part

Three reps a day of an 80-mile round cycle trip should do it in a few weeks. 😉

In the gym, I would be mixing up rowing machine; cross country machine; hand cycle; exercise bike (if you can stand it on top of cycling outdoors). With just a dash of light weights.

Cardio machines in a gym are depressing and a waste of time generally. Do big movement weights (deadline, squats etc) along with the cardio you already do and you’ll be laughing, as long as your diet is good.

And you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time, it’s just easier of you focus on one.

Also getting older and my upper body is getting stiffer, less efficient and less mobile.

I started weight training to improve posture, flexibility, core strength, joint strength & injury prevention. This is why EVERYONE should do it. They’d be a lot less knackered backs, knees, etc. The strength & physique improvements are just a bonus.

you want low intensity exersise to burn fat. Couple that with reduced sugar and calorie intake will see you loose weight. Weights will help with muscle strength and tone but won’t be effective as light cardio to burn calories.

lol. Could not be more wrong. But then would you trust someone who didn’t know the difference between loose and lose 🙂

In answer to the OP, the ONLY way you could put on weight/size is to have a calorie excess. Think about it. Lifting heavy is ALWAYS the optimum course of action.

The week after I set up this programme I got sent to London for forever, and am at the mercy of hotel gyms. Many of which are decent enough but don’t have half the kit specified in the programme so it’s a bit of a balls up. So I just improvised really.

Also tried deadlifts – 70kg, I think. Feels good to do and works up a good sweat unlike the rest of it. Briefly tried squats with a bar but it hurt my bony shoulders so will try to work out how to do it. Bench press is up to 50kg which is fun too.

Weight is stable at a relatively low level despite having eaten quite a bit.

For squats if the bar is hurting your shoulders you have it in the wrong place. Down a bit would likely help.

Have a look at Rippetoe’s vids or 5×5 for form.

The correct place for the bar on a back squat is the base of the traps.

Did lots of deadlifts on Sunday, didn’t feel battered but then went riding yesterday and felt tired, so I guess that means I did some good work.

Say what? Is it this time of year again already?

Lift some heavy things, repeatedly, in a few different ways. Run around a few times a week. Eat less food, drink less booze.

I could dress it up a bit and charge you £50, if you like.

I’m doing the paleo workout.

You have to heave animal carcasses about and deadlift logs etc. As many logs as you can until you’ve enough to build a modest shelter.

One of the key fat burning sessions is shivering around a camp fire.