Unusual query…

I like to ride abroad in June but there is often still snow above 2000m in North-facing enclaves. Last year I just walked my bike across some snow/ice fields on fairly steep gradients but this was really quite unsafe, particularly on untracked fields where other walkers had not carved out a path. I got the feeling it could’ve ended badly.

Next year if there’s late snow I’m planning to take an ice axe, but that’s very much a last resort to use as a brake if I begin sliding. But I would prefer not to begin sliding at all, not least because getting an ice axe in while sliding at speed holding a bike could be difficult. Are there any studs, maybe even crampons, or something that I can keep in my bag to fix to my SIDIs for trekking across snow? Do you reckon a pair of telescopic walking poles would do the trick instead of an ice axe? Would it help to take a little shovel for carving out a path?

Or is the answer simply to abort a trail if it’s blocked by a snowfield, and ride somewhere else?

Must be a market for spd-equppied crampons?

If you’re not confident using crampons and an ice-axe for self-arrest I’d go somewhere else. Crampons are your main means of security on easy/moderate slopes – axe will stop you if you slide and practise how to do it.

Having said that there are a few basic strap-on studded ‘crampons’ for trainers – have a google.

Call on the services of the local health and safety manager, who will arrive wearing a hi viz jacket, clipboard, helmet, and he will do a risk assesment ,based on the data available to him rgarding temperature, height, risk of serious injury,equipment reqd to complete the task insurance claims etc.

or you beat him to a pulp, and use his intesines as a makeshift rope.

In all seriousness then – is it possible to get some light crampons which will fit in a riding backpack, which fit SPD-compatible shoes?

It seems a bit like using a mallet to crack a nut but there is one particularly awesome trail which is almost certain to be blocked by fairly steep snow/ice next June

http://hillsound.com/02product/trampon.php
http://hillsound.com/02product/cypress6.php ???

Last year in Banff I hired some “springs” that fitted over the sole of my walking boots and gave amazing grip on snow and ice. When the East Coast get into work I’ll ask a colleague what they’re called

Have a look at these:

http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.php

Pesronally i wouldnt be crossing a snow slope without an axe and crampons, but thats me….

Hmmm these could work

http://www.climbers-shop.com/246638/products/Kahtoola_Microspikes.aspx

These are more heavy duty but apparently fit any shoe including cycling shoes

http://www.kahtoola.com/crampons_details.php

*edit – thanks you got to it first! I think you’re right, these “microspikes” look a bit half-arsed given the risks involved (massive slide down a steep icefield in Switzerland a kilometre long, hitting terminal velocity and then some rocks, or a cliff). Especially given that I’d also be carrying a bike which would be clipped to me somehow. If I do this trip again in the same conditions it’s with the kit or not at all! Could just go somewhere a little lower down the valley.

I’m sure I saw something that fixes to shoes with springs/spikes in Lidl/Aldi last week.

they maybe ideal as nice and small to pack and light to carry

I’m not overly confident that microspikes will work on anything with a gradient. By design, they stretch over shoes and therefore could potentially stretch and slide off if you’ve got your entire body weight sliding at an angle.

Perhaps, and this is a big perhaps, you would be able to get a B1 crampon to fit a Shimano MT91? Alternatively, just wear hiking boots.

I wouldn’t be confident using an axe with a bike, if you slip with your bike you’ve somehow got to roll yourself onto your front to self-arrest, which is pretty difficult if you’ve got a bike woven through you somehow…

Walking poles are no substitute for an axe, especially if you fall. There are poles with a pick on them for that purpose, but I personally think they’re too long to comfortably use.

You are sorting of going about things in the wrong way. From a mountain point of view the basic is an axe, in you hands (note both hands,) ready to self arrest. That comes way before crampons. If you slip, crampons do nowt and may make things worst by catching and flipping you.
Thats it. No ifs or but.
However if you chose to push your luck so be it. I probably would. Cycle shoes are fairly stiff and might well cope quite well with crampons. Bit iffy I suspect crossing steep snow/ice with em mixed up with a bike. I suspect you wouldn’t bother to put them on for a short stretch of snow and are you crossing 100’s of yards of the stuff?
I suppose a bike might make a decent ice axe for self arrest. Lots of sticky in you bits.

Based on a few Megavalanche experiences, bikes are bloody good for self arrest on black ski pistes! I would’t expect them to be near so good on ice thugh…

Thanks

I’d be walking the bike across the snow – not riding

I found the bike didn’t do much to decelerate me when I slipped last year. Fortunately there were some rocks not far (about 30 metres) below me. I hit them at a good angle and escaped with cosmetic wounding only. I think I was falling ahead of the bike.

So if I was sliding with a bike in one arm, you don’t think a single ice axe would be enough to stop me? That is understandable. You pick up speed f**king quickly…

The snow in question is patches of snow up to 400 metres long, some of it fairly steep (I’m traversing, not ascending or descending).

On re-reading this all sounds kind of stupid; the answer seems to be that walking on melting snow in high mountains is nothing to **** about with, and that it certainly doesn’t mix with bikes. Here endeth the lesson?

Sounds very very sketchy to me.

Yep I think so

You need two hands on the axe to do an arrest. Crampons allow you to get further – into more danger. An axe allows you to stop yourself if you fall.

Avalanche risk?

To do a proper ice axe arrest you need BOTH hands; one holding the axe at the head and forcing / guiding the pick into the snow, the second near the mid / end of handle to hold the axe steady under your body and stop it bouncing about. Single handed ice axe arrest is lilkely to end up with sharp bits of axe ending up in the user. You will also end up probably losing your bike if using the axe in an arrest situation. As above too crampons, be they full monty jobs or the strap on cheese grater types do give you extar grip but do not help stop you in a slip situation, indeed they can cause someraulting.

Lets be honest a bikes the last thing you want to be humping across a steep hard packed / icy snowfield. If its steep and icy you can’t push it. If you carry it (with or without crampons) your ability to recover the situation if you slip is pretty low

Hadn’t considered avalanche risk. The snow I’m talking about is extreme late-June hardpack, so hard packed as to be like ice really – can that avalanche? You can probably tell that I’ve not done the course.

I think we have established that ice fields and bikes don’t mix! Unless you’re into MBUK-style gimmickry/japes

Feel for you there. Theres always this route near Champréy that we do around june thats got some sections like that. always gives me the kreeps, but the single track the other side is sweet. I usually go across on my own first without the bike, but with the seat post making some foot holds, then go back and collect the bike, having estabilished footings makes it easier.

sorry that should have been clearer, the footings I make with my feet (clipless pedal shoes with studs on the toe) the seatpost is a makeshift ice pick

Hadn’t considered avalanche risk. The snow I’m talking about is extreme late-June hardpack, so hard packed as to be like ice really – can that avalanche?

No, not really. In answer to your original question: if the snow is steep enough and large enough that you would go a long way / pick up a lot of speed if you slipped then the answer is obvious – ride a different route 😉

You need sturdy stiff footware at the least to traverse snowy slopes. If you can’t kick into to the slope you should not be there without crampons etc / winter walking gear.

If the snowpack is frozen / icy you need to look at mountaineering techniques.

Are you on your own? Not a good idea.

That’s an interesting approach! I’m trying to think of where near Champery you might mean.

Blatantly the solution is just to nail it on your bike full steam ahead, get some air maybe, then tuck and roll when the inevitable crash and slide occurs*

*or ride somewhere else

Sounds really dodgy to me, for all the reasons already stated, plus I wouldn’t be happy riding with an ice axe strapped to me in case of a fall from the bike. Even with protectors on the axe there is still considerable potential for injury.

I wouldn’t be happy riding with an ice axe strapped to me in case of a fall from the bike

Good call although a little shovel (as is common) is no different in some respects (but then I don’t ride with one of those either). Sharp edge etc.

The day I witness an ice axe arrest with a seat post, bike in spare hand, is the day I buy a singlespeed. Neither’s going to happen. About as likely as those moves Sly Stalone throws in Cliffhanger being for real.

No mountaineering book I own describes the correct technique.

PS – wouldnt call Megavalache territory “steep ice” by a long way.

Anyway, good luck…

Perhaps if I strapped some blades to my camelbak

Kahtoola microspikes are great, I’ve done grade 1 scrambles in winter using them and walked on she ice without slipping, when crampons seemed excessive or I was using lightweight footwear. Kahtoola crampons are very good, I have the aluminium ones. For crampons Kahtoola are the best option with cycling shoes. The Campa Corsa ice axe will save you neck and weighs bugger all, but if you use it, I would expect to say goodbye to the bike.

Yeh monging at work and looking at arrests, I see now why it wouldn’t work with a bike in one arm! It requires some force.

I might get some of this stuff just because it’s fun having this kind of stuff lying around the flat

To be brutally honest- if you need to ask the question then you should really consider whether you should really be there. You intimate that there is a high penalty for failure and that you failed previously, saved only by luck.

Falls are seldom pleasant. Falls on melting nevee are usually accompanied by you and lots of initially flailing spiky things. Been there, done that. Lucky to be alive TBH. And that was with ropes, crampons and axes.

If you really must do the trail at that time of year I suggest that you prep the trail first prior to attempting the crossing with the bike.

As someone above suggested, you need mountaineering techniquies here. Perhaps axe, crampons/ step cutting and break the bike down and pack it across on your back. Treat it as a load to be carried rather than a bike to be manhandled.

Get some training/ experience in this winter.

And don’t rely on random blokes on the internet to tell you what to do!

+++++1 for what Ambrose says, falls are NO joke, and steep neve is NOT place to be without kit and training.

I’ve done an ice axe arrest with a unicycle – big flat pedals, bunged in, held on. Just the same as an axe arrest. Not sure I’d recommend it though – that was only on Jacob’s Ladder, so nothing super steep or long, just a medium steep rock slope covered in ice and snow. I’d also not recommend vans as shoes for ice, that was a bit of an adventure!

But for reference if you get into a similar idiot situation for some reason, pedals dug in are a possible way of stopping yourself.

Joe