http://digg.com/video/netherlands-intersection-design

can’t see British drivers giving way to cyclists like that.

And notice that the cyclists don’t think that they’re in a race

can’t see British drivers giving way to cyclists like that.

Just guessing, but your average Dutch driver probably spends a lot more time on a bike than a British one

Interesting that all the people in those clips are just people riding bikes rather than ‘cyclists’. No helmets, no hi viz just the same as people in cars. Ordinary folk doing an ordinary activity.

That’s what they tried to build along Oxford Rd in Manchester. It’s quite interesting and not an entirely a relaxed experience to use. I think it still depends on sensible behavior by car users, pedestrians and bike users. There are normally some interesting behaviors and I normally cover my brakes at all times on busy bike lanes. It’s not quite the Nirvana you might imagine

What nickjb says.

. I think it still depends on sensible behavior by car users, pedestrians and bike users.

Think one of the key things is that most people over there use cars, bikes and their legs to get about. Hence sensible behaviour and consideration for the different modes of transport.

Looks great for young and old to get out and about on their bikes, but those wanting speed would still be snookered at all but very anti-social hours.

but those wanting speed would still be snookered at all but very anti-social hours.

How much speed do you need if just getting about town?

How much speed do you need if just getting about town?

Cruising at ~16mph on flat terrain? 😆

also the politics of envy in the UK wouldn’t allow the spending levels required to achieve that kind of approach. You can spout as much good sense as you like about the health benefits saving you money in the long term, mean spirited dickwads like Janet Street-Porter will be spouting off “where’s our money” “whats in it for us”.

That’s a great wee video, and it really shows how the Dutch system is properly engineered from the ground up. I’ve had a couple of cycling holidays in the Netherlands, one with young kids, and the road system just works. It’s as simple as that.

It’s not quite the Nirvana you might imagine

I think the problem is that you can’t do it by just re-engineering a few selected roads. We rolled off the ferry in IJmuiden, straight on to a cycle path, and cycled on fully integrated, direct routed cycling infrastructure for 10 days. No busy roads,no hunting for obscure back streets or Sustrans routes. Just quiet lanes or purpose built paths literally everywhere. You have to see it to believe it. Unfortunately, I don’t believe we will ever achieve this in the UK, because we are light years from the level of public demand that existed in the Netherlands in the 1970s.

That’s part of the problem those bike lanes are quite narrow and there are a huge range of cycling speeds from pedal and roll to warp speed it all contributes to a less than perfect experience.

from the level of public demand that existed in the Netherlands in the 1970s.

There was actually little public demand, and a lot of public antipathy. It was fantastically ballsy and far-sighted move by the Dutch government in response to the oil crisis and the accident rates on the roads.

In my experience, Dutch paths coped easily with cyclists of all ages and a wide variety of speeds. I think racing cyclists tend to make use of the roads. The transport infrastructure certainly hasn’t hampered the development of successful Dutch competitive cycling.

there are a huge range of cycling speeds from pedal and roll to warp speed

This is true, and it needs acceptance from (some) cyclists that attempting to whazz along an urban cycle lane at 20ish mph can be as irresponsible and inconsiderate as a card driver attempting to whazz along at 40ish mph through a housing estate.

This is true, and it needs acceptance from (some) cyclists that attempting to whazz along an urban cycle lane at 20ish mph can be as irresponsible and inconsiderate as a card driver attempting to whazz along at 40ish mph through a housing estate.

+1, they’re not race tracks, they’re cycle lanes for getting about on. Just like roads.

If you want to ‘make progress’ you can still head out of town and ride on the country roads like you do in this country.

interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2THe_10dYs
Dutch discussing american bike road useage