A mate of mine has recently re-located abroard to start a new job. He knows i'm not enjoying my present role and said he can get me a very well paid job with him, since he's on the interview panel. Now this would be a role that I have little/no experience of, yet he assures me i'd have no problems doing it, and would be answerable to him.

He says that i'd have to 'embelish' my C.V. (basically make up a shit load of experience!) to get the job thou, and lie through my teeth at interview. This i am certainly not comfortable with, yet he is convinced it's not a problem.

It would also mean time away from my family if i somehow got the job, again I'm not happy about this.

It is a tremendous opportunity thou to get in at managment level in a very well paid field, an opportunity i have never been afforded in my working life, and probably never will be again.

What would you do?

Not what your mate wants you to do.

Unless he'll personally underwrite the costs for you if it all goes t*ts up.

why can't your mate be honest?

he can say – "there's this great bloke I know who can do the job given half a chance" – he's putting his reputation on the line then not yours.

wwaswas – Member
why can't your mate be honest?

he can say – "there's this great bloke I know who can do the job given half a chance" – he's putting his reputation on the line then not yours.

Just what I was going to say.

Anything more than slightly "polishing" experience and ability should be avoided and even that can be a bid dodgy.

I once employed a guy on the recommendation of a member of staff who we found out later had lied on his CV and in interview, he was sacked for gross misconduct and the chap who recommended him as being ideal for the job was put on a final written warning.

I know, it's my worry too, he's convinced it won't and that I (we) wouldn't get found out. Apparently the whole place is full of bull shitters according to him, so I'd be the least of their worries. I'm also concerned for him, as it'll reflect very badly upon him if i screw up (again he assure me this couldn't happan) as he's taking all his family with him!!!

There's not a massive finacial cost to me, should it all turn to custard but he seems adamant that i should be there too, maybe just so he has someone to ride with ❓

wwaswas – Member
why can't your mate be honest?

he can say – "there's this great bloke I know who can do the job given half a chance" – he's putting his reputation on the line then not yours.

yer, that's the conclustiom the wife and i came up with. maybe that's not the way it works in his line of work, i'm not sure, as i've never done it!!! He tells me it's a who you know deal, yet if that's the case why do i have to lie so much?

Looks to me as though he wants sombody he knows to be there with him as a bit of moral support/"partner in crime" (not implying anything illegal you understand, just a useful expression)

If I knew for certain I could do the job I would. If I thought I'd get found out, then no.

presumably the job involves lying a lot….

Is it in Marketing or Sales?

No, not marketing or Sales.

I wouldn't have any issues blagging that! 😆

Could it be that you're generally intelligent and perfectly capable at doing the job, but they need to tick boxes, i.e. give an example of when you have… etc which you can't do yet because you've never been required to.

I had a manager who said he expected me to say certain things in a promotion interview, I would have considered it lying if I had. Feedback was he was expecting me to lie and would have put it down to exuberance in the interview if he was questioned and everyone else had done this!

That sounds about right. As HR would also be in the interview i'd assume that they would be questioning his motivation if the boxes weren't ticked, and other candidates did have the boxes ticked. I believe him that i'd be able to do the job, why else would he risk putting his head on the line? I presume that he know's that his word is/wouldn't be enough to guarantee the position.

My advice is don't do it. I interview around 15 people a week in my current contract and have interviewed at least several hundred people over the course of my recruitment career.

I'd like to think I can spot a bullshitter
I'd take personal refs to allay any fears about someones honesty
It's likely that if you were sucessful at interview despite his claims someone would watch your performance from afar and cause you problems in the future.

It's been my experience that if something seems too good to be true it's because it is.

If you lie, you will be caught. Especially in a professional company environment.

Going against the sway of opinion here…

I'd be tempted to give it a go if:
the job being offshore there'd be no repercussions to my employment here if it went tits up. The world is pretty wild in some places and jobs, full of chancers, and bs'ers. If you can pull this off then bring those skills back to this country you've started yourself off on a new career.
and you've got some genuine belief that you have at least some of the skills necessary, and can pretty quickly acquire the rest- presumably you do, else you wouldn't be asking the question.

Would you really want to be a clueless manager? Doesn't sound ideal to me if it's a) managing people who know then job and b) you openly have said you don;t know anything about it. If it's a line of BSers then do you really want to join them, or is your mate BSing that you could actually do the job – as by definition he has suggested he is as much a BSer as the rest!

yer, and i'm not even a very good liar. I'm sure a lot of folk do, and get away with it, but that's just not me, never has been. I think i'll email him and tell him no! If it didn't invlove actual lying I'd love the opportunity, but I have my values, I can't afford to have them, but I do have them. oh well! 😐

I wouldn't lie.

I couldn't do it personally – don't think I would cope very well with the stress of potentially being found out, even if it was unlikely.

vinnyeh – Member
Going against the sway of opinion here…

I'd be tempted to give it a go if:
the job being offshore there'd be no repercussions to my employment here if it went tits up. The world is pretty wild in some places and jobs, full of chancers, and bs'ers. If you can pull this off then bring those skills back to this country you've started yourself off on a new career.
and you've got some genuine belief that you have at least some of the skills necessary, and can pretty quickly acquire the rest- presumably you do, else you wouldn't be asking the question.

Don't say that, or i'll change my mind! But yes I had managed people and projects before, but not on the scale he's working on, by a long chaulk. There is a lot of BS'ers out there, i've heard some horror stories, and everyone has to start somewhere, and not everyone starts at the bottom – but I'm not a great one for BS unfortunatly, if I was i'd give it a shot for sure, as I know i could pull it off.

My mate has worked in this industry 20+ years and is convinced i'd be able to do it, and enjoy it. I'm just not happy with the lying to get the position.

I would be tempted to have a go, but I am a terrible lair. I suspect I would be found out within minutes.

Tricky

I interview regularly and if I found someone had outright lied on their CV, I'd be looking at getting shot of them, UNLESS they were actually good at the job, in which case it'd probably amount to a severe talking to.
So IMHO, it depends on how confident you are that
1 – you can do the job
2 – you can blag the interview, if it's a panel there might be a bullsht-spotter or two there, and
3 – the references won't give you away

He's your mate worked with you in the recent past? If not how is he able to say that you can do the job with such confidence?

Difficult to say without knowing what the job involves.

If other peoples' health/safety depends on it, then no.

More important in this life to be true to yourself

How well/long have you known this guy? Do his friends find him trustworthy and reliable? Does he flit from job to job or person to person without any concern or is he a constant sort of person? I would consider his history and what people think of him as a friend / collegue when considering how much to believe the picture he is painting and how realistic it might or might not be.

But whatever you choose, be sure you can feel comfortable looking yourself in the mirror in the months to come. How you see yourself is very important to future comfort.

I think you should find yourself a new mate. Would you really want to work alongside someone with so little integrity. He sounds like a complete ****.

Boot on other foot; how would you feel if you went for a job and the guy who got it only did so because his mate was already there?

Somewhat dismayed?
Perhaps a little put out?

It all sounds dishonest, to be honest.

sounds too god to be ture, i wouldnt do it…. it could all easily go tits up in the future, you or your mate could slip up one day and the shit could hit the fan.

from your replies, most of you are either totally naive or alarmingly unambitious. Do you think the world is some kind of perfectly truthful meritocracy? Why do so many unremarkable people spend so long "networking", if not in hope of opportunities like this one?

to the original poster, I really don't understand what you have to lose. provided you have a modicum of intelligence, you understand your job description and you don't mind spending some time away from your family, you'll be fine. Even if you get caught out at the interview you still haven't lost anything (beyond the cost of the flight, possibly). If once you're in the job you feel uncomfortable or don't like working abroad, stick it out for a couple of years then go back to the UK with a vastly-improved CV and a lot more experience. If you were applying for a promotion in your current field in the UK then obviously I wouldn't be so enthusiastic, but this isn't the case. go for it.

well put furry_marmot.

How many of the naysayers have never exaggerated experience, salaries or changed the career emphasis on their cv's to get a job?

You two are truly princes among men.

Lying and cheating is the way forward you crack on mate. I'm glad I don't do business with you guys.

over the course of my recruitment career.

I'd like to think I can spot a bullshitter

Look round the office? 😉

In my experience recruitment 'professionals' can mix it with the best of 'em in the lying, cheating & BSing stakes!

I would follow up any leads at the moment, nothing ventured and all that…although that said I wouldn't lie beyond 'painting a scenario in the best possible light' if that makes any sense?!

Lie, and take the consequences.
I bloody hate people who lie and cheat the system.
Do it if you must, but you will be found out.

Putting something in the best light is one thing, lying through your teeth is something very different..

I guess I'm just old fashioned.

I've been thinking about it quite a bit today. A big part of me wants to give it a go, thinking of all the times i've not got interviews or jobs because it's gone to someone that knows someone, even thou i (on paper) would be the prefered candidate. Then i think how unfair this is and that i should not be part of it (although i'm aware that integrity doesn't pay the bills).

Another part of me know's i'm terrible at lying and will be caught out at interview, even thou i'd have questions and answers given to me prior to the interview i doubt my BS'ing enough to carry it off.

A large chunk of me thinks that's an amazing opportunity and the salary is amazing, think of all the stupid useless crap i could buy to make myself feel better about being a lying cheating schmuck (although would i be 'cheating' if i was actually good at the job – i mean how bright do you have to be to go round with a clip board ticking boxes, i've a degree, and a masters, just not in a 'relevant' subject)

It will probably just boil down to whether i can leave to kids, i couldn't take them with me for fear of it all going horribly wrong.

How much more money is it?

…that's what you can be bought and sold for…

We've all got a price, you've just found yours out.

You know it's wrong, just hope karma doesn't come back and find you.

50K more than i'm on at the moment – that's kind of enough to make me think about it. I think that's enough to make most people think about it.

Cheat the system? You're having a laugh!

So, Matey feels he has a chance or progressing his career quickly and perhaps down the right path for him, and getting a shot at a bloody healthy portion of the pie – something in his own words he has never had before. Let's call it "the big break". To polish ones CV is one thing, to blatantly tell pork pies another.

When I started in IT, I spent 000's of hours teaching myself what I wanted to know (had a GNVQ in IT and some other irrelevant (to that field qualifications)) a mate of mine was self employed as an IT contractor, so I wrote on my CV i'd spent time with him (unpaid) to 'gain commercial experience' and other such, a blatant pork pie. I got the job as systems admin and went on to do really quite alright for myself at such a young age.

Who did it harm? no one. Did it do me any negativity? No. What detriment to my CV did it do? None.

What positives did it give me? that 'big break' I wanted in my chosen career at the time. I knew full well I was more than capable of doing the work (my mate was my referee and said pretty much the same) I soon quickly progressed and ended up with a pretty good job with pretty much most of my colleagues at least 10yrs older than me.

I don't condone lying nor do I lie now, however, if it's just a bit of CV polish and a friendly referee, and if matey is believes in himself to pull it off then i'd have my covering letter written before the first bit of ink started to dry.

I was once told something "You can teach a skill or two all day long to pretty much anyone, but you sure as hell can't teach someone the willingness to learn" It's so true. If Mr Showfiti is an absolute plank, then he'll fall on his own arse and screw things up for his bud, but surely you wouldn't ask a question like this without thinking you've got more than a 75/80% chance of getting a job offer.

Put it in riding a bike terms. Someone tells you that doing that 6' drop off is a piece of cake and "you can do it" so, if you think you're pretty handy on the bike, what do you do? get off and walk down because, you know, you might screw it up and land on your arse, or, do you have a bloody good go at it?

Make a calculated decision, think long and hard whether you can do it, if you can, get out there and get it done.

Good luck and all the best.
jt