Looking for some thoughts on this, I have a 2010 Orange Five SE, its old now, but works and I like it. However, the temptation of a new bike is strong! My riding style/preferences/skill etc haven’t really changed too much, I do some natural stuff out in the hills, and some man made red routes at the likes of Glentress/Laggan etc.

So if I was to splash the (significant amount!) of cash on a new Five, what differences would I really see? I suspect it would lighter – I may notice this when lifting onto the cycle rack… and stiffer – would I notice this at my distinctly average riding pace? Wheel size would be 1.5″ bigger – no real opinion on this as never ridden 27.5 yet.

I think the answer would be more obvious on two standard bikes, but I have carried out a few upgrades on mine which will probably blur the lines a bit. I already have 1×10 rather than the original 3×9, I have newish brakes and a wider handlebar. Rest of the bike is pretty stock.

Bike mags and reviews always suggest the newest bike is the greatest thing, but for a real world rider who doesn’t get out enough, isn’t fit or skilled enough, and doesn’t have any aspirations of racing etc, is it worth it?

We rode The Beast at Coed y Brenin Friday, after six years away from the place. My long and slack 29er made it all flow much better than I remembered from last time. I think a modern bike will give you more stability and confidence to hit everything faster.

Mate of mine works in the bike industry and is always riding the latest must have bike with the most up to date wheel size/groupset/geometry….

I’ve had a go on most of them. Are they nice?…yeah, course they are….they’re new.
Are they better than my 2010 Stumpjumper FSR….meh, perhaps with the right rider giving it full beans.
But, for me they don’t feel much different.
I’d rather spend some money on a few nice upgrades and loads of weekends away.

i have a 2011 Orange Five and love it…wanted to bring it more ‘up to date’ fitted offset bushing…lowered BB and slackend it out. Feels even better now.

Make sure you have a good shock to, I run a CCDB coil, paid £200 notes, good as new…with my Pikes, short stem and wide bars it’s a weapon!

BTW this is where I got my offset bushings from…

http://www.offsetbushings.com

but for a real world rider who doesn’t get out enough, isn’t fit or skilled enough, and doesn’t have any aspirations of racing etc, is it worth it?

combined with

I have a 2010 Orange Five SE, its old now, but works and I like it.

Is telling me you don’t need a new bike. But that won’t stop you wanting one or getting one and you may enjoy it more than the old one as it may be marginally better but only you know what to spend your money on/what other things you would not buy instead of it etc,..

Main difference is in geometry. Modern bikes tend to be longer, lower and slacker. This confers advantages when pointed downhill as they are more planted and the slacker head angle gives a more confident ride, particularly on steep and/or rockier terrain. Same applies to the now de rigeur 650b wheels. Disadvantage is that they’re not as nippy as steeper bikes with smaller wheels. This is shown in acceleration and in cornering. They’re not as good at climbing either. Ultimately depends on your riding. If you’re doing lots of uplifts you’ll certainly see the difference, same with enduros. If you spend most of your time ragging trail centres/more trail type riding, the bike you’re riding is more than capable.

I have a 2008 P7, it hadnt been ridden for a few years as I have newer toys to play with, but the other week I built it back up with some spare bits and went out for a ride on it.
And tbh, it felt great.
I will say though, the steering instantly felt heavy compared to my other more modern bike.
I dont think components have really changed that much, ok its 11 instead of 10 speed but apart from that there aren’t any real differences.
Also, if you are swapping to 27.5″, i reckon you will have more choice of decent tyres in the future.
All imho, of course.

A new bike is always good.
There, I said it.

Try it and see, there are so many great bikes. I had a 2011 O5, loved it, bought a new bike and love that too.

It’s faster and gets me out of trouble but whether it’s worth it is a personal choice dependent on what you want to do with it and what else you could / do spend your readies on IMO.

Not essential tho, for sure.

Also, if you are swapping to 27.5″ a 29er, i reckon you will have more choice of decent tyres in the future.
All imho, of course.

😛 😉

Demo some, but to me 130/120mm travel on 29er is spot on if changing from a 150mm 26″ wheels.
Trek fuel ex 29er is where my money would go

@fasthaggis, well yes. 😀

Biggest difference will be in the forks/shock, especially if you get something with a Pike or the like. That technology has come on a long way.

The 2009/10 5 had a decent geometry for the time, one that remained unchanged until 2014 so isn’t miles behind the current trends. My mate has my old 2009 and it still rides very well.

New one is slacker and stiffer but don’t expect it to be lighter. Always nice to have a new bike though so if you have the cash go for it! The 2017 5 is about to launch so there’s some decent deals about on the 2016. Might also be worth taking a look at the 4 which is getting rave reviews and maybe closer in attitude to yours than the new 5.

Best upgrade you can make is a session with Jedi/Nath at UK Bike Skills.

As you say the bike is fine. A new bike is always a good feeling and yes component upgrades or repleacing worn out kit we need to do from time to time. Your bike “ain’t broke” so don’t “fix” it

My bikes are 2012 and way more acapable than the rider

Basically, slacker geometry, longer wheelbase and bigger wheels, with a trend towards 1x (and a lot more 11 speed now).

All primarily designed to get you to buy a new bike and allow them to charge more 😉

Though does make a difference in riding.

26 and 27.5 you will barely notice a difference in wheel size alone*, but the frames tend to be longer and slacker so you notice that.

* – the main difference is it can affect gear ratios, but just go one smaller front chainring and it’s the same as on 26. Fractionally affects acceleration, though no where near as much as difference between 26 and 29.

.

If you fancy spending money on a new bike then the biggest change you will feel will be to go to a 29er. I still can’t make my mind up which I prefer between 650b and big wheels but I’m kind settling on 29er for fast days out keeping up with fitter mates and 27plus for shorter quick spins on my own.

For some cycle commuters, ~14000 miles. 😉

Stuff has changed, I don’t think many people would say the current models are worse than the older ones.
For me there are a few things
Firstly materials, lots of people moving beyond Alu to Carbon, for me that means you can get what you want from a material with less compromises in terms of weight. strength and reinforcing.
Next up is the old Cheap Light Strong, pick 2. these days you get lighter and stronger for less money than you used to
Geometry sizes etc. things have changed and compared to 2010 I’d say the bikes go up and down better. It’s a balancing act, I remember older bikes with nice descending angles needing dual position forks etc. these days tuff feels more balanced.
I demoed a few bikes over the last few years. Did the Nomad/Blur LT2/Alpine just about back to back in 2011, got the next iteration of the LT. At the time the 2 SC bikes felt similar just the nomad had a bit more travel. Rode the current one earlier this year and it’s very different, pedals better and descends much better (back to back runs with a bike I’ve got dialled for me with a custom fork tune etc.)

So yes I think new bikes are better, as for upgrading I’ve not had many frames with a hard life make it past 6 years so maybe get shot before it snaps 😉

Better damping, stiffer, slacker, longer – basically better for riding hard.

Offset bushes and/or an angleset and a more modern fork and shock would get you most of the way there.

Current Shimano brakes can have issues and aren’t as reliable as the previous generations.
Solo air Rockshox forks don’t seem as well built as the old dual air ones.
Many new bikes have a narrower range of gears now.

Apart from that, not much really.
You’ll probably pay more for less, and competing standards mean it will be harder to mix and match bits.

On the upside, nice bright colours are back, and geometry is a bit different.
🙂

Thanks for all the replies! Some good info there. Offset bushing isn’t something I had thought about, will look into it and see what’s what.
I’m on the original suspension still although just been stripped and serviced so running as well as it every could, would be interesting to see how the newer stuff compares as have never tried pikes or the new Ohlins shocks etc.

Differences in the last 5 years

650b – total shite
boost – Swimming in a sea of shite
1×10/11 – ok (simpler but not miles better than 2×9)
Suspension performance – improved but not night and day (reliability is no better and may have got worse in some cases)
Geometry – great
Weight of bikes – same or heavier due to increased length of the front triangle and 650bollocks wheels

To sum it up, geometry has improved quite a bit, other than that it’s either apple style upgrades for the sake of it or marginal gains.

29’ers have better geometry, as do 650b which is not really any different to 26″ for your average rider.

Ride a few demo bikes and see if you get on with longer reach and TT. If you don’t find decent difference, spend £20 on offset shock bushings and ride your current bike.

It’ll still sound like a spanner in a metal drawer being thrown down some stairs and the back brake will still ruin the rear suspension when you apply it on a DH but yea it’ll be grams lighter but not as lighter as your wallet will be

The whole 650b fiasco’s slowed things down a bit, as suddenly all the effort of the bike industry had to be redirected into reinventing things they already made. At least we largely avoided the 29er sillyness where they wasted years trying to convince us 29ers rode like 26ers…

Sizing is the thing, for me. Not so much geometry- I chucked a headset and bushings in my old Hemlock and gave it a perfectly respectable 66-ish head angle frinstance. But reach, sure. Really just feels like this is something we were doing wrong. Wheelbase is less open and shut, for me it works but it does have drawbacks.

The base technology hasn’t moved on much tbh for mainstream bikes but the implementation is better. And there’s a load of interesting things out there that are new or have gone accessible.

chestrockwell – Member

Biggest difference will be in the forks/shock, especially if you get something with a Pike or the like. That technology has come on a long way.

Weight aside I’d sooner have an old Lyrik than a Pike tbh. And today’s Float shock is IMO pretty much exactly as good as 2010’s- they went through a spell of being worse then rallied. It drops off quite fast as you go further back though.

If you fancy spending money on a new bike then the biggest change you will feel will be to go to a 29er.

I very muchly whole heartedly agree.

27.650bollocks

I have a 2011 5 which is similar in geo to yours but has a slightly stiffer frame (tapered headtube, Maxle rear end, 30.9 seat tube) and a few mm more reach for the same size. I’ve also upgraded it and the biggest difference was when I went from the 140mm 32 forks to 150mm Pikes, the extra stiffness was very noticeable! Other than that it’s just been more bling on the whole – 1×11 XT, wide bars, Hope wheels etc. The only original bits are the frame and the shock. I’ve had the RP23 custom tuned and it’s nearly as good as the CCDB I demo’d when I was looking back then so it’s not a weak point!

It’s coming towards the time to think about replacing it as it’s had a proper battering and I’m waiting for it to crack somewhere. Tried a few new bikes – Kona Process 153, Trek Slash, Bird Aeris – and they’re all better, but not enough to warrant spending a few £k on them to get a similar spec. The only time I feel like it’s out of it’s depth is on DH runs, it copes and is definitely better than me but it does’t feel too happy at times. I’ll be looking at getting some coaching to improve my skills over the winter as that is the weak point in the chain for me.

to the OP- a new bike always feels initially better. In the process of building a new bike, you always get tempted to get a few upgrades (but you can blame it on change of standards). You take care to build it and get it set up. You’ve got the new bike buzz and everything is rolling along sweetly. Best bike you’ve ever had! However in the back of your mind you’re doing the sums of the cash you’ve spent and doubting is it really that much better than your previous bike. Or should you have went for the other best bike ever that the mags are bumming up this month.

I personally think that the long, low, slack, 160 mm enduro bikes are over hyped (or over biked) unless all your riding is a steep gnarlfest.

When you ride your current bike, do you feel it limits you in any way for example: brakes are not powerful enough, feels unstable in the corners, not enough suspension travel for your riding…

Find out what is wrong with your current bike, will an upgrade fix it i.e. better brakes if yours are down on power, if an upgrade can’t fix it then it’s new bike time, however you will know what you are looking for to be better in that new bike, for example you may come to realise you need a bike with a low bb and really slack geometry you can then go and find a new bike that fits the bill and it could be anything: Santa cruz, Cotic whatever…

But just buying a new orange because it’s new, the changes may not suit you at all and it will be in the classifieds before you know it.

If you fancy spending money on a new bike then the biggest change you will feel will be to go to a 29er.

I very muchly whole heartedly agree.

27.650bollocks

Christ, are people still defining bikes by wheel size?

I don’t agree with lots of the things above but if you like your bike then a freshening up might be all the change you need.

However why not demo a few new bikes and judge yourself? Doesn’t have to be a new Orange either (not that I have any opinion on them either way)…you can get decent FS bikes for very little these days…

Personally I love the longer reach of newer bikes. People complain of incremental differences but I’d argue they make a big difference when added up over five years.

Christ, are people still defining bikes by wheel size?

Is this the latest forum thing? Posts that mean absolutely **** all?

I own a 2010 5 and I’m going through the same thought process… I recently updated it to 1×10 with a Praxis 11-40 cassette , xt brakes , off set bushes and push tuned the rear shock… I love it and it’s about to do its 7th Alps trip !
I’d love an Alpine but as the 5 managed to get my backside through Enduro 2 without me mangling myself and will still take me on our regular Weds night XC ride,’I can’t bring myself to replace it..
Best bike I’ve owned.

Is this the latest forum thing? Posts that mean absolutely **** al

Nearly the latest thing, but you beat me to it! 😆

I like to start trends 😆

some wonderful & woefull out there 😉

650b – total shite
boost – Swimming in a sea of shite
1×10/11 – ok (simpler but not miles better than 2×9)

650b isn’t shit, it’s just not 26″ which seems to be whats twisting people knickers. If you arrive at it from a new bike perspective then who cares.

my 1×11 gives me the range of the 2×9 I was happy with without a front mech, shifter etc. and was reasonably priced and the weight was good.

The whole 650b fiasco’s slowed things down a bit, as suddenly all the effort of the bike industry had to be redirected into reinventing things they already made. At least we largely avoided the 29er sillyness where they wasted years trying to convince us 29ers rode like 26ers…

Did people really go down the 29 is the same as 26? The big selling point was it was different.

If you fancy spending money on a new bike then the biggest change you will feel will be to go to a 29er.

I very muchly whole heartedly agree.

27.650bollocks
It will be different, but as there is a massive range of 29r’s out there it could be good different or bad different. As above the hate for 650 is about people who thought every bike with 26″wheels was amazing cause wheel size makes a bike…. The last bike I tried that I liked a lot was 650b coming from my 26″ bike I also own a 29″ bike… the wheels didn’t feel like the difference the revised geo, balance and spec list delivering a bike at a weight that was very good with no major flaws for a good price also sold me.

I own a 2010 5 and I’m going through the same thought process…

First rule before spending cash on a 6 year old bike is give it a good check over for cracks.

As above the hate for 650 is about people who thought every bike with 26″wheels was amazing…..

Can you show me one quote where someone has actually expressed that opinion?

mikewsmith – Member

Did people really go down the 29 is the same as 26? The big selling point was it was different.

Yup- “It’s steep and short so it rides more like a normal biek!1!!”. Basically talking down the differences to make it appealing to more risk/change averse customers. Course, this is exactly why 650b appealed in the first place- all the exciting change, less of the scary difference.

I’ve not had many frames with a hard life make it past 6 years

Really? I’ve broken one set of forks in 25 years. To be fair, I’m only quite wee but in true STW style, I’d recommend a skillz course.