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How long to stay in a job

46 posts & 34 voices | Started 1 year ago by bikemonkey | Latest reply from peterfile

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bikemonkey - Member

I started my new job in Jan and it became immediately apparent that late nights are normal here.

Now, I don't mind the occasional late night when you've got something to do or the shit has hit the fan. Let's say I'd even volunteer to do, say, 2 all nighters a month. The culture here though is to only think about going home at 7pm, and regular impromptu late working. For example, at 5pm today I was told I need to stay "for hours" to work on something I shouldn't really have to work on and it now looks like I'll be here until 11ish.

It stems from poor management higher up (who all leave at 5 incidentally) and given that I get no extra pay, time off in lieu and am not particularly well paid in the first place, I don't really want to work here any more. It's wrecking my home life as I can't make any plans in the week and am always grumpy outside of work.

How long should I stay here for? How do you tell new employers in an interview why you left without looking workshy?

Posted 1 year ago #
dmiller - Member

For the last 8 to 10 months I have been doing 10 to 12 hour shifts and sometimes 60 plus hour weeks - I only get paid for 37 hours. I have been with them for 5 years now.

I have seen no thanks for it, and indeed recently went to HR and explained how stressed it was making me - long story short they are not going to do anything about it and I have been marked as a trouble maker for bringing it up...

Dont start to do it, be the 9 to 5.30 guy. Its a slippy slope to start going down.

Posted 1 year ago #
nickjb - Member

As long as you don't end up with a string of short jobs on your CV a one off shouldn't be an issue. I worked for a company that required a minimum 10 hours unpaid overtime per week; as you say bad management, if you need more staff then hire them. Happy to be flexible but don't take the p!ss.

Posted 1 year ago #
samuri - Member

I just left a job after only working there for less than 6 months and the conditions were nothing like as bad as those you describe.

It was just shit, frustrating and boring so I moved on.

Posted 1 year ago #
bikemonkey - Member

I know, but leaving a job after 6 months because you can't hack it looks bad, even if it's reasonable.

I'm also not sure how I'll get to go to interviews!

Posted 1 year ago #
mrmo - Member

i have been in my new job for two months and have decided it isn't what i thought it would be, and isn't what i want to do. IF the question comes up the answer in my case is it isn't the job i thought it was.

But at the moment any job is better than no job, the interview i had lined up for tomorrow was cancelled today as funding was withdrawn.

Posted 1 year ago #
Coyote - Member

As long as you don't have a string of short term stays then you'll be fine.

Posted 1 year ago #
Grimy - Member

Dont start down that slippy slope, just because the rest of the team are mugs.

Posted 1 year ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

I know, but leaving a job after 6 months because you can't hack it looks bad, even if it's reasonable.

Well one of the UK's leading economists Alan Budd, has just handed in his notice after only a few weeks as head of the Lib Con government's flagship new quango, the Office for Budget Responsibility.

Far from challenging his reputation, his resignation has probably enhanced it. I've never had a job interview in my life, so can't offer any advise. Although I would have thought explaining that you were unimpressed with your previous employer's "poor management" as you describe it, would be the way to go.

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Just refuse to work the excessive hours. Its against the law for a start of - working time directive. Quite possibly takes you under the minimum wage as well.

You are being exploited - don't let it happen

Join a bleeding union FFS

Posted 1 year ago #
BigBikeBash - Inactive

I leave my current job on Friday purely because of the sh1t hours.

At the interviews I have had this hasn't been an issue. 'I was mislead about the job when I was recruited and after 6 months I can see it isn't going to change'

Simple and honest explanation. No issue.

Posted 1 year ago #
nickjb - Member

I think blaming 'the management' always comes across badly in interviews as you are talking to your potential new manger. As mrmo says you just need say it wasn't the job you thought it was, you gave it a reasonable chance but it didn't work out

Posted 1 year ago #
Kuco - Member

Your in a job that you say is wrecking your home life, have to stay late for no extra money and can't make weekend plans plus it makes you grumpy and your worried it will look bad on your CV.

Get the **** out of their, start looking for another job.

Posted 1 year ago #
tails - Member

I find it absolutely bizarre that anyone would put in that much extra time without a monetary or extra time bonus. I'd put in a bit of extra time during busy periods as my boss is a nice chap but no more than working lunch or a hour after work.

Posted 1 year ago #
keavo - Member

i'd get another job and then leave, asap. tell potential new employers that you want to work for them.....think of your reasons to make them believe you are impressed with their company.

Posted 1 year ago #
joolsburger - Member

What is it you do?

Posted 1 year ago #
cheers_drive - Member

Leave ASAP, as the others have said if you don't make a habit of it it won't be seen as a problem and if you put off another employer who wants you to work stupid hours then that's a good thing.
I've always put in extra hours when the chips are down, especially if everyone does. Having said that even though I have twice the work I can cope with at the moment I'm not putting in extra hours as the company is making millions and will just be making more out of me doing extra hours.
Basically put the extra hours in for emergencies etc, or if the company's in trouble but don't do it to cover for other people inadequacies or to help save them money in recruiting others.

Posted 1 year ago #
_tom_ - Member

I would leave the office as soon as my hours are up. Why would you work when not being paid except on the odd occasion when something just needs doing?

Posted 1 year ago #
bikemonkey - Member

I work as an advertising account manager. As an industry it can tend towards long hours, but neither of my past emloyets were as bad as here. I think I'm going to circulate my cv at the weekend

Posted 1 year ago #
BigJohn - Member

Start working the hours that you think are right, make sure the work you do is up to standard and on time and then just wait to see if they call you in for a meeting.

You never know, it might just work.

Posted 1 year ago #
ton - Member

why would you work extra hours for no extra pay. every job has a start and finish time.
hours extra to those times should be paid the correct monies.

if you took the job knowing that they would have you working extra hours for no more money............then mtfu.

if you were not told that you would be working extra hours for no more money, go and see the hr people or the citizens advice.

Posted 1 year ago #
joolsburger - Member

I was a sales manager at Yellow Pages for several years. It's pretty normal to see people working long hours in that environment as it's whatever hours to achieve the targets. If you're not on a commissioned comp plan then you need a new job, otherwise par for the course I'm afraid.

Some companies are better than others but in sales you have to do what it takes to hit the numbers.

Posted 1 year ago #
chewkw - Member

If the company is not in deep shit then by all means leave at 5pm. Those sort of working culture wrecks everyone life. If others want to stay longer to get brownie points then sort them. You work for them but not at the expense of your sanity.

Start looking around. No point and life too short.

Oh don't wait too long start looking ...

Posted 1 year ago #
konabunny - Member

leaving a job after 6 months because you can't hack it looks bad, even if it's reasonable.

You can hack it. You just don't want to - and that's the right course to take. There is no point in working long hours at a crap job that isn't even paying you well and you don't get any reward. You are dying slowly. Move if you can!

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426

Posted 1 year ago #
brooess - Member

BikeMonkey - tell me it's not Finex, please? or TMW?
I've just spent 10 years in London ad agencies, first as a suit, then a planner and it was the same everywhere. Excessive unpaid hours are the norm. Lots of people are happy to do this and so it carries on. I've always had to sign out of the Working Time Directive - ad agency margins are too tight to afford otherwise.
Martin Sorrell (runs WPP - produce 25% of all advertising globally) says 2010 will be another rough year and my old Creative Director said clients are getting tougher and tougher on budgets... so it's not going to get better.
If you want and believe you have the ability to get right to the top then you can make a pile. If not but you're happy to make the sacrifices to your personal life then stick with the business cos it can be a lot of fun. However there's a reason why there aren't many people in agencies over 35... we've gone clientside to earn a better package, for less stress and fewer hours

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

What does your contract actually look like? is there mandatory overtime, terms of payment or TOIL etc?

Posted 1 year ago #
turnipforgeindustries - Member

AFAIK...if you have cleared your probation period, they can't just fire you. they need to formally tel you why you are not performing and set you clear objective on how you can resolve the issue. (except for serious misconduct) so if you FOH when your hours are up they can't say you aren't doing your job properly and fire you (well not immediately). you can probably hold on and get to a year at this place until things get grim and a year looks OK on your CV.

i don't do unpaid overtime anymore: used to do it a long when i was younger. i also say in interviews that i expect mutual respect in a job and that if it is a day before delivering something then obviously i will stay later. if management factor in unpaid work in the project plan to get things delivered cheaper and earlier that is when i start to say no.

Posted 1 year ago #
Coyote - Member

if management factor in unpaid work in the project plan to get things delivered cheaper and earlier that is when i start to say no.

I used to work for a company that did just that. It was essential that we a) won the work and b) delivered it within budget at all costs, usually the staff's.

Posted 1 year ago #
hora - Member

I work in recruitment. I think the longer you stay in this job OP the more chance you'll jump into the wrong job that comes along. Long hours tend to stop you looking for a new job or putting it off without realising that. Its a vicious cycle as looking for a new job can be a job in itself can't it?

Everyone is allowed to make a mistake and realise that they are in the wrong role. Shows that you are proactive.

In my industry its normal to work 8am-7pm+. You can **** right off.

Start looking now- whilst you are in the driving seat. Think of you, your employer isn't.

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

urnipforgeindustries - Member

AFAIK...if you have cleared your probation period, they can't just fire you.

Not really - you have no recourse to a tribunal until you have a years service so sacking you within a year is easy. You cannot be sacked or discriminated against for not opting out of the WTD however. If you were then you would probably have recourse as you would if it was discrimination that led to your sacking

so until you have a years service your recourse is extremely limited.

Posted 1 year ago #
tron - Member

I'd look somewhere else. The idea of joining a union or telling them it's not on generally doesn't work in the private sector. For that sort of thing to be effective, you need a unionised workforce, not one bloke in a union.

Obviously, find something else before you leave. It's grim out there at the moment.

I'd not worry about being in the job for a short period of time - you have a good reason to leave and you're not starting out in life, so your CV will prove that you're not a slacker.

Posted 1 year ago #
hora - Member

Agree with tron. Plus if you had a pattern then yes it would worry an employer. One inbetween long service isn't a problem.

Posted 1 year ago #
johni - Member

I worked as a manager somewhere with a similar late evenings culture. At the time we had a new born. I used to drive in very early to avoid traffic so got to the office about 7.15am. I'd arranged when I started that I would leave at 4.30pm again to avoid traffic.

When I started I got meeting requests for 5pm, 6pm etc. I used to reply with a suggestion that I could do 7.30am the next day. I made sure my work was always good and on time.

It is very difficult to change you working lifestyle once you have started the "who can stay longest" competition, but I found once people realised I normally left at 4.30pm, they were fine with it. In fact a lot of others began working their proper hours and just made better use of their time.

I did work extra hours but it was the exception rather than the rule. I could also do some of it from home so it didn't matter too much.

Posted 1 year ago #
squin - Member

If you are in an ad agency, my understanding is that those sort of long hours are par for the course - doesn't mean to say that it's right or fair, but that industry seems to have it's head up its arse and can get away with treating people badly as there are more people wanting to work in role than there are roles.

I know a bloke who was a group acc director at a big agency, and got sick of doing late nights and even all nighters. He decided to move over to the client side and now works for a part of Manchester City council (in a marketing capacity) that runs loads of the sporting venues. He took a big pay cut, but he now gets home just after 5pm and gets to spend time with his family - he is much happier.

I would suggest you start to review your options, but don't do anything too hastily. It may be that you need to move sideways within your field as opposed to jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Your next employer might expect similar from you (without actually saying it) if you stay in the same sector of your industry. FWIW, I don't think that you have shown a lack of committment currently, but you need to look for your next move to be with an employer who would equally view your current regime as harsh.

Good luck with what you decide.

Posted 1 year ago #

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