Only an observation from what you’ve said on here K, clearly you know best but from a total observation POV, it looks like to me you are doing too much “stuff”

Anyway, next race is when ??

😆

What’s the specific target?

Top 5 24 Solo Vet, with a stretch to 3rd. I was 8th last year.

Anyway, next race is when ??

Ha Ha. Saturday – Rd 2 of the one I’ve been moaning about, I decided to go an do it again with the strategy and advice above at the forefront of my mind.

Quick straw poll. Many on here competing and doing well at more than one discipline at a time?

I race Expert XC in the Midlands (and just about starting to get some form back!) and am a Cat 3 in road racing (in which I can hold my own). Haven’t done any TTing or CX for a long while, but may have a tinker later in the year.

will you be there Molgrips?

Yep – home town, closed roads, it’d be rude not to.

Sponsorship thread

Quick straw poll. Many on here competing and doing well at more than one discipline at a time?

Not me, focus is all on road racing with some crits from time to time. I think if you want to commit to something that the training has to be so specific that not many people can be successful across many disciplines – not talking pros here, and obviously some people are just naturally good/talented, but for the mere mortals who have to work at fitness/skill.

I’m still very sore, whiplash has gone but bruised ribs impacting ability to train/race so DNS in my race yesterday. Can’t see me being fit enough in any sense of the word for this coming weekends stage race either. Can’t climb out of the saddle or sprint due to the pain in my ribs and its another hilly course so not ideal!

I think if you want to commit to something that the training has to be so specific that not many people can be successful across many disciplines

I think it depends on what kind of success you are going for. Competent amateur – I think you can do road and MTB. Anything more you might need to specialise.

Some things are exclusive based on physiology though – being a strong track sprinter doesn’t lend itself well to hilly MTB marathon races, I suspect 🙂

*waves* at DGOAB, thought you’d given up on STW but you seem to keep coming back to the racing threads 🙂

I race Expert XC in the Midlands

*waves*
We probably ran/slid past each other at some point yesterday 😆

Oh I wish I could have, been ill and snotty all week so didn’t race yesterday 🙁

Also Lee, checked the results and congrats on the podium!

I think it depends on what kind of success you are going for. Competent amateur – I think you can do road and MTB. Anything more you might need to specialise.

And that’s really the point. If you’re after points in a 34 race then you’re up against a bunch of 3’s who are already well experienced and chasing points for their cat 2. Also if you’re just dabbling you’re up against a bunch of racers who’s training will be focused solely on that discipline. Unless you happen to have a real natural aptitude for it then it’s going to be hard. So fine to dabble but be realistic about expectations and who you’re up against.

TBH, if you’re main goal is to be good at 24hr solo XC why are you bothering with racing a 1hr thrash around a circuit?

Kryton are you staying overnight on Saturday in Cardiff? Fancy a pint or a spin?

Its this years goal MrBlobby, it might not be next years. I accidentally did well last year so thought I pursue it as a potential, plus I like the Bonty and am going with friends. The road crits are because I’d quite like to try my hand at road racing, and they act as good training events for the XC races also.

The “multi discipline” issue is interesting; with 6-7 hours only a week to train I might be better of focussing on XC only in 2016, just using the road bike to train and for fun road rides rather than crits.

molgrips – Member
Kryton are you staying overnight on Saturday in Cardiff? Fancy a pint or a spin?

I am! I’ve bribed – my wife has little bike-empathy – a weekend away by treating the family to a weekend in Cardiff. I have to dutifully do some sightseeing and shopping + dinner on the Saturday but could find some time somewhere.

Hah, I have to do the same thing with my tentatively planned Trans-Cambrian way attempt in July.

Let me know what you fancy. Could be a quick spin around town.. there isn’t really any gentle off-road to do. I’m expecting a couple of others to be down too but I am not sure if they will come. What’s your start time?

Well, 8:50, but in the interests of getting the kids home for bed on time I’m going to try to join the 7.45 pen illegitimately with a club colleague.

Ooh, I wouldn’t.. you might get DQed… It looks like a slick run operation.

The “multi discipline” issue is interesting; with 6-7 hours only a week to train I might be better of focussing on XC only in 2016, just using the road bike to train and for fun road rides rather than crits.

If I had a 24hr solo XC as my goal that’s probably what I’d do.

Edit… having said that, off 6-7 hrs a week I’m not sure I’d have considered 24hr solo. I would have thought to be competitive you’d need miles. Must be a good natural fit for you.

TBH, if you’re main goal is to be good at 24hr solo XC why are you bothering with racing a 1hr thrash around a circuit?

Exactly what I was thinking, they are essentially the complete opposite of one another. TBH I’d bin the crit racing, unless you are willing to use it as motivation for hard training in place of say a chaingang.

If you are doing well in XC and longer mtb events, then I’d strongly suggest that if you want a chance of success on the road you should be doing TT’s and proper road races. Definitively not punchy, flat crits.

(Sportives are not races and don’t need training for, unless you are starting out cycling IMO. Instead go and enjoy the ride, scenery and people.)

I watched the Barrow round of the Tour Series on TV last night (first time this year I’ve managed to see any of it), it looked really exciting and I suddenly wanted to be crit racing again!

I think if you want to commit to something that the training has to be so specific that not many people can be successful across many disciplines – not talking pros here, and obviously some people are just naturally good/talented, but for the mere mortals who have to work at fitness/skill.

I dunno, I raced Expert MTB and 1st/2nd Cat road for at least a couple of seasons, I think they backed each other up.
Track and CX racers usually benefit from crits too. I don’t like too much specialising – I think it’s beneficial to mix things up a bit.

I’d agree that XC, road races and TT’s work fine together.

But crits and 24 hour mtb races, not so much.

Obviously if you are on a limited time budget like most of us, then you just have to make do with what you can fit in. But I’d try and at least tilt my training towards the event I was focused on most. Still all cycling is good 🙂

Edit… having said that, off 6-7 hrs a week I’m not sure I’d have considered 24hr solo. I would have thought to be competitive you’d need miles. Must be a good natural fit for you.

Well I got my 8th in baggies with no training or racing of note, 3 hours sleep, couldnt be bothered with the final lap at 11:59 on Sunday was riding an (ill fitting so STW says) Yeti ASR5 with a camelbak.

Although I expect competition to be stiffer this year, I’m 2 stone lighter in lycra, XC race fit (I like to think) and will be on a 24.5lb Anthem 29er with a bottle cage, and have a different strategy. 🙂

Yes I’m better the longer races go on, I seem to “last” better than some others. Personally I think XC with TT’s for shits and giggles is the way to go.

Time trialling can be quite addictive. You have been warned 🙂

🙂 Following my profile test I bought some Deda clip ons…

I’m sorry that this last few pages seems to have evolved around me, I feel a bit guilty about the amount of real-estate I’ve used up.

There’s some useful stuff in here though, I hope it helps others as it has refocused me, so thanks to the contributors so far…

Time trialling can be quite addictive

Not for me. I’m not that bad at it, I can summon up the required iron will for 23 (or 25!) mins but *** that shit. It’s boring as hell. MTB racing is far more interesting!

MTB racing is essentially a TT.

MTB racing is essentially a TT.

I concur. Ok, you need the rad xc skillz, and weight takes the place of drag, but the effort is more TT than crit.

*waves* at DGOAB, thought you’d given up on STW but you seem to keep coming back to the racing threads

waves back. no, still here, just not as often.

Yes I’m better the longer races go on, I seem to “last” better than some others

This would suggest you and crits will never get on! I’m barely getting going by the time a crit is finished even if I extend my warm up. Road racing is the way to go 😀

MTB racing is essentially a TT.

I don’t think you could be more wrong…..XC racing is not comparable to a TT
only that they will both hurt.

MTB racing is essentially a TT.

Not at all.

1) in a TT you are aiming to be at your threshold power as consistently as possible, it’s a sustained effort. In an XC race you are over and under all the time – the downhills are technical enough that you can’t pedal at threshold, and the ups are steep enough that you have to go over.

2) TTs you just sit and spin, whereas in XC you have to handle the bike well, downhilling and doing singletrack as fast as you can.

3) TTs are usually as flat as possible, whereas XC is usually hilly. This means that the bug guys are better at TTing and the small ones at XC

would suggest you and crits will never get on!

This is quite possible. I did one 24 hr solo and gave up because whilst I did ok and I felt like doing more, I realised that neither my body nor my lifestyle were suitable for doing really well. My body wants to do short, hard and fast races, I feel so much better training for that than for long slogs. Other people I know are the opposite.

Arse 🙂

I was just reading this http://www.rideabout.co/how-to-prepare-train-for-xc-racing/#Racing_for_fun

This would suggest you and crits will never get on! I’m barely getting going by the time a crit is finished even if I extend my warm up. Road racing is the way to go

I know we talked about not including club runs, but maybe this describes in a nutshell why I can ride 10 miles out of a valley to the meet, do well at the front, sprint for the cafe at the end after 100k and end well, then ride 10 miles home.

I always thought a road race was an extended crit and I be doomed to failure…

Well that’s a load of rubbish, have you seen how ‘big’ Wiggins is?

Plus XC is essentially a sustained effort, pretty similar to a TT. But quite different from a road race or crit.

Well that’s a load of rubbish, have you seen how ‘big’ Wiggins is?

By road standards he is. How big are the other good TTers?

Plus XC is essentially a sustained effort, pretty similar to a TT

No, it’s over/under. Get a power meter and do both, compare graphs.

Club runs bare little relationship to racing, so are not a good way to judge form. Some really strong club run guys make terrible (road) racers.

Xc Racing has high oscillation in terms of power output with high developed aerobic and anaerobic systems needed. Research suggests anaerobic performance can be a good indicator of XC performance: XC requires lots of short bursts ranging from 5-30seconds. Just look at this weekend’s World cup, do they really look like they are doing a TT in terms of effort?

In a TT you are looking for a sustained power output without much deviation in terms of power. Completely dissimilar to and XC race

FWFW I just look at my Strava analysis for Crit vs XC race and it mirrors welburns description.

So er, perhaps I should save £15 this weekend?

I always thought a road race was an extended crit and I be doomed to failure

Eh no! Unless your racing round Pimbo (industrial estate) that is. Much more fun IMO, less corner sprint corner sprint, and a chance to use the terrain to your advantage if it suits you. Plus not only do you get to warm up but there’s the neutralized section to get into the swing of things before the race kicks off.

So er, perhaps I should save £15 this weekend?

Play to your strengths!

If you’re a long haul trucker, then do that.

Ok thanks, I might look into that.

In the mean time, If I start tomorrow which is coincidentally my next “ride” day, the TrainerRoad Cross Country MTB plan fits exactly to end on the weekend of the Bonty.

In addition, looking at the plan, substituting the mid week session for the Beastway series I’m riding Wednesday nights, and the weekend session for the club ride or the monthly Mus Sweat and Gears races actually fits the profile of the turbo sessions/plan.

Wowee, after three pages I found my calling, saved £15 and got my next training block all in one 😀

Plus XC is essentially a sustained effort, pretty similar to a TT
No, it’s over/under. Get a power meter and do both, compare graphs.

Time trials can be be very over/under, especially sorter ones. You have rises and dips, changes in wind strength and direction, road surfaces, etc. You can go a lot faster as you learn when to push a bit harder and when to back off a little.

Time trials can be be very over/under

Depends how hilly. Our local 10 is undulating but nothing like off-road steep. The local very experienced guys all said to keep constant power rather than go over/under. Because going over fatigues you much more quickly. It’s not possible in an XC race because the hills are so steep you’d be at a crawl.

Having said that, from a physics point of view it uses less energy to keep to your average speed, so if you trained for anaerobic power you’d do better if you went over/under. But since most TTs aren’t hilly you wouldn’t train like that, TTing is seen as being about threshold power.