we see coordinated protests again?

If they put up fuel duty in the budget perhaps.

The government are probably taking a gamble that the negative effect of some angry fat people in tractors will be more than offset when the inner city riots inevitably kick off in the summer. Petrol bombs will be by far beyond the means of the average rioter

Everything’s a compromise, but ultimately, on reflection, its worth the gamble.

Haven’t they already set expectations by saying fuel is going to be 2 quid a litre shortly?

Here you go. See how many times it’s been reported on.
http://business.ukplurk.com/2011/03/soaring-oil-price-could-raise-cost-of.html

Then when it *only* hits £1.70 or something, there’s less chance of everyone kicking off.

How high do you think fuel prices will have to reach before people stop driving so much and realise that oil is finite?

Fuel (for cars and homes) is always going to go up in price, as said above, it’s a finite resource. Probably nothing will seriously happen on price until we gat to some sort of major crisis. Until then, drive less, or buy a cheaper car.
Just got to suck it up i’m afraid.

Just a thought. The folk who drive 15mpg range rovers are actually pushing up the price for the rest of us. Ditto the people who drive 40k/year, even if it is for work.

How high do you think fuel prices will have to reach before people stop driving so much and realise that oil is finite?

Thats quite a niave viewpoint. Our whole economy is based around movement to a point.

Our food, clothes and your bike bits.

If it hits £1.70 then we still start to see real problems. Not least as with people driving less there will be less money (a HUGE earner) going into state coffers.

Ontop of this you’ll see real issues with social order.

The Government know with the escalation of price the higher their income so they can effectively keep quiet and say ‘not our fault- blame the oil companies for rises as we haven’t risen the tax’.

Going back to my comment on naivety- public transport costs will also rise soon (have you seen how much bus fares are?! If you are on a low income how do you afford these? Not everyone can cycle to their city centre job in retail or a factory. We don’t live in a Eutopia where we are middle-aged men in lycra cycling 20miles each day.

I heard the gov’t have some money in the coffers that they are going to use to help aleviate the current highs caused by external market forces.

It’s not so much the price of filling up the motor but the effect it will have on food. My wagon has gone up to £300+ to fill up and all this gets passed down to the customer eventually . At the moment a lot of the hauliers are soaking up the extra costs to stay competitive but very soon the whole lot will be passed on. I know my place has not charged the customer any extra yet but it will at some point not too far away.

Hora I was thinking this just the other day. If the retail price goes up enough then sales will drop dramatically, which would be bad for govt revenue. If they want to maximise revenue they need to CUT duty to keep it within a manageable range.

Purely from a revenue generating viewpoint though – not an environmental one.

How high do you think fuel prices will have to reach before people stop driving so much and realise that oil is finite?

But we don’t like being told this, so instead we all prefer to go around with our fingers jammed in our ears shouting “la-la-la-la-la.. I can’t hear you.. la-la-la-la-la-la-..”

When you hear anybody say “yes, we must reduce our dependency on cars”, what they really mean is “everyone else should reduce their dependency on cars but I’ll be damned if I’m going to change my precious little lifestyle” …

The sanctimonious vegan shoe wearing crowd really make my **** itch sometimes. 🙄

I’m trying to work out if it’s had an effect on car usage already, I’m sure the roads are quieter than usual on my commute at the moment although there don’t seem to be hundreds of extra cycle commuters either.

The sanctimonious vegan shoe wearing crowd really make my **** itch sometimes

This will be the same crowd that eats food transported to their area, wears clothes transported to the area, sits in a house warmed by energy transported to the area, shops in vegan shops powered by fuel/energy, holidays etc etc.

They love to live in a self-created arrogance-bubble.

Anyone who doesn’t own a car yet crows about ‘cars’. Top tip for you- don’t breed please. Not because I don’t like you (we all have notions of disliking waste) but babies really do consume and perpetuate more consumption of our worlds natural resources.

Anecdotal evidence reported in the press suggests it has had an effect on volumes and speeds…

mansonsoul – Member
How high do you think fuel prices will have to reach before people stop driving so much and realise that oil is finite?

Some people have no choice. My company decided to relocate me 45 miles away from home. I can’t move because my girlfriend works 30 miles in the opposite direction and I have joint custody of my children so can’t move from their home town.
I live in South Wales so jobs are scarce so not easy to change and public transport here is abysmal – my quickest journey to work on public transport is 2 1/2 hours each way!

Yeti +1 by the way

There will not be any fuel protests. Its not in the tory parties interest so their friends and fellow travellers won’t stir any protests up

Some people have no choice. My company decided to relocate me 45 miles away from home.

My company did this too!! Except it was only 35 miles. They said they’d calculated it’d only take an extra 30 mintues (70mph average!). I had to buy a new car, but the whole thing was a waste of time anyway because i got made redundant a few months later. ****ers.

You have to wonder if they’d have done it if fuel wasn’t so cheap though?

Some of my colleagues are of the opinion that high and rising fuel prices are a good thing. We work in the environmental business, and many of us cycle to work, etc.

HOWEVER, although reducing driving and car relaince is a GOOD THING, it needs to be achieved through a series of measures. Fuel cost rises alone will hurt our competitive position and harm our economy. Unilaterally forcing drivers off the road without greener personal or public transport alternatives is just plain stupid.

I have been considering changing car – a new company car would get me into a more CO2 and fuel efficient vehicle (for now – ie by today’s standards).

As part of my car needs thinking I have considered electric, especially the about to be launched Nissan Leaf – but it couldn’t manage any of my current business trips without running out of juice… and even commuting on a cold day would require me to charge up during the day – using my employer’s electricity?… assuming I have a parking space right next to work?

More needed to bring the emerging technologies to the fore before penalising everyone for using technology to which there is no viable alternative.

joao3v16 – yes fuel is finite, so what we ought to do is change our whole economic structure and transportation culture in order to use less, peoples lifestyle is built around jobs and transport to a large degree. So totally transforming our way of life would be a great idea to preserve fuel reserves and keep costs down, except the big boys like china and US will still be guzzling it….. so the fuel will still be depleting and in high demand…. because its an international market…..

so we could just get a grip and look at ways to maintain our status whilst making fuel go further, more efficient cars, a variety of power stations etc etc….. and this is already happening.

I’m interested to see if it has any impact on unemployment. Think about it…

Everyone is feeling this, but I’m guessing most people on here are earning a reasonable salary and can absorb the costs to a certain degree.

But what If you’re earning minimum wage? And that provides you with an income that isn’t that much higher than being on benefits? But you have to travel to your job, and your travel costs are going up and up and up….?

At what point, do you think **** it! Its not worth it

rkk01 – where would your electricity come from? presume you only use juice from hydro or wind power station? If not the extra fuel required to make and transport a new car that uses electricity from a coal burning power station pretty much negates the point of buying an electric car……

it is running out no proetest will reduce our dependence on a diminishing resource

Thats quite a niave viewpoint. Our whole economy is based around movement to a point.

It is quite naive to think that we should not alte rthis given the increasing costs and lack of a long term supply if this resource

The sanctimonious vegan shoe wearing crowd really make my **** itch sometimes.

You called – yes better to be a head in the sand petrol head moaning about prices and to carry on regardless

This will be the same crowd that eats food transported to their area, wears clothes transported to the area, sits in a house warmed by energy transported to the area, shops in vegan shops powered by fuel/energy, holidays etc etc.

Are you suggesting all humans use resoures Genius. Should I commit suicide to not be perecieved as an energy guzzling hypocrit because I try to reduce my use ….is that so much worse than not givinga shit ?
petrol heads naive beyond words
What would you propose we reduce the price and use it up faster? How does that help?

TandemJeremy – Member
tory parties

Ahh, Tory Parties.

Yes, I never miss the South Wilts Hunt Ball 😉

You’re not one of those who think that the last round of fuel protests were orchestrated by Teh Toriezz are you?

Now you aren’t being sanctimonious are you Junky? 😉

I imagine you have a self-sufficient veg patch for all your food needs and your internet is powered by carrot-juice then?
🙄 😆

(have you seen how much bus fares are?!

Yep which is why it’s a bit of a pisstake when people moan about the cost of driving.

Of course they were organised by the right wing with tacit approval and assistance from teh tory party. I am not hopelessly naive

is there not a ( albeit seemingly not very well ) co-ordinated protest organised for april 1st..?

Maybe the oil companies are just hiking up prices before their world collapses when electric cars finally make it.

And by stealing everyones money they are making sure people can’t afford electric cars when they come out.

The last time I hoped on a bus it was almost 4 quid for two of us one-way.

Trust me, I wouldn’t mind catching a bus however the thing belches out diesel fumes and the route it takes is circulous. I want to go 2miles into the city centre. Guess what? It goes around the houses first and still ends up in Picadilly – nowhere near the straight line into the city centre.

Ontop of this there is the Tram system. They are investing money into extending the lines into idiot-areas of Manchester yet have done nothing about the two-carriage (wait 20mins at peaktime) service on the existing lines.

The a6 through belper is always busy on a weekend especially a Sunday with people heading into Matlock bath etc, but of late it is definately quieter than it normally is. People, me included just aren’t going out for that afternoon jaunt coz it costs so bloody much!!

as I said originally what would you prefer me to do reduce my use or not give a shit ?Does the organ than influences your behaviour least have any thoughts on the issue or do you just want to do petty [but mildly amusing] insults?
Iot is stupid to suggest that there are onlt two ways continue using a resoutrce that will run out or give up all my possesssions. It is just possible that there may be something between those two extreme positions to consider.
My electricty is 100% generated from renewable resources thnaks for caring – you still releiant on depleting resources no wonder you mock me

It goes around the houses first and still ends up in Picadilly – nowhere near the straight line into the city centre

What it is not a taxi and it picks up other people on route Shocking

I think the thing that gets me is the ‘I’m alright jack, **** the rest attitude’ displayed by those lucky enough to live close to where they work and are not affected by fuel prices.

I’ll be honest… I am alright, I can absorb the fuel increase. It’s given me the excuse to buy a road bike so that I can comute every now and again so that I can feel like I’m doing my part… I however recognise that this is not possible, or practical for all.

It just makes a lot of seemingly left wing and liberal people sound very, very tory indeed.

But then… ‘I’m alright, so **** the rest of you’

viv – Member
joao3v16 – yes fuel is finite, so what we ought to do is change our whole economic structure and transportation culture in order to use less, peoples lifestyle is built around jobs and transport to a large degree. So totally transforming our way of life would be a great idea to preserve fuel reserves and keep costs down, except the big boys like china and US will still be guzzling it….. so the fuel will still be depleting and in high demand…. because its an international market…..

so we could just get a grip and look at ways to maintain our status whilst making fuel go further, more efficient cars, a variety of power stations etc etc….. and this is already happening.

Getting ahead of the game in terms of restructuring society put us in a better position to compete. China and the US can be slower reacting about it because of their size and power, we need to be ahead of them, not following their leed.

rkk01 – where would your electricity come from? presume you only use juice from hydro or wind power station? If not the extra fuel required to make and transport a new car that uses electricity from a coal burning power station pretty much negates the point of buying an electric car……

Like I said – I work in the environmental sector. We’re currently doing quite a bit to support the wind and solar generation industry, as well as traditional fossil fuel and nuclear sectors… I am quite well aware that electricity generation has it’s own environmental costs for transport (of raw fuel), infrastructure, generation, transmission etc…

My consideration of an electric vehicle was based purely on the fiscal measures in place to hurt infernal combustion engine drivers…

… and like I said,I can’t see that the technology is anywhere near ready for any application other than limited range city runabouts.

I however recognise that this is not possible, or practical for all.

you are correct because we have built a world and economy around car use.
however it is not sustainable as oil is running out and will therefore get more expensive. The only thing we should discuss is how best to manage this change

It just makes a lot of seemingly left wing and liberal people sound very, very tory indeed

An element of these didn’t do very well at life and fell into a niche which to be honest is slower and lazier…. so rail against the rest. “I couldn’t make it so I’ll show my resentment in another form/pretend I wasn’t interested anyway”.

I’ll never be able to afford a Porsche 911. Doesn’t mean an owner of one is a **** though. They just worked harder at life than me.

The only thing we should discuss is how best to manage this change

Amen!