Just built up the 456 SS from all the bits off my 5. The front is a fair bit lower so using a more spacers under the stem now. Had the 1st ride out tonight, feels fun but you have to put the work in.
The front is easy to lift, and its well balanced (in the small amount of air that I get 😳 ). Currently got Easton EA70 Low rise bars.
So, if I went to higher rise bar, would it feel harder or easier to get the front up? 😕

Lets be honest, the more spacers under the stem or higher bars, the less grip you'll have in cornering.

Higher bars would help in hoisting the bow, if we are to be honest.

Lets be honest, the more spacers under the stem or higher bars, the less grip you'll have in cornering.

Higher bars would help in hoisting the bow, if we are to be honest.

😆 Touche!
Hoisting the bow = lifting the front? 😕
So what benefit does rise have then, if any, apart from raising the bars? 😕 Why not use a load of spacers?
A couple of people I ride with have commented that I seem to ride with my weight over the bars. My mate (about the same size as me) tried the 456 tonight and said that he felt as if he was "over the front".
Now, over the last year, the 3 crashes I've had have been down to the front washing out. Coincidence?… or maybe I just need to learn how to ride a bike 😳

So what benefit does rise have then, if any, apart from raising the bars?

None, it just makes your bike look more like a bmx or a motocross bike..braaaap braaaap!

anyway, that's what gives lots of folks the horn.

Maybe you have a really long stem or too much pressure in the front wheel? As a rule I tend to use the "rear minus five"* rule when it comes to my leading edge. Being over the front and committing to nailing and railing the trail is a prerequisite for a good time.

* I made that up, but it's probably sensible.

riser bars look cool and we should in engineering terms really be using flat bars as apparently they are stronger but we dont cos there a markeing gimmick!! But in real terms if you have higher rise bars then your weight will be further over the rear and less over the front. which is good for jumping, higher speeds and steeper stuff, lower front ends provides less traction over the front. having said that you can prob ride round lower bars by moving your weight back further and more aggressively but it might not be as easy or as natural to compensate for tall bars. i have low rise bars but i have fox 36 forks and they are pretty tall!
x

Cheers Nicky, I think I maybe try some higher rise bars then
Everything else is bang on and should be "right". Kenda stick-e front, 35 psi, 70mm stem (I think). Maybe I'm just riding beyond my skills or unlucky 🙄
The 456 SS begs to be railed through corners mind 😈

lower front ends provides less traction over the front.

Probably a typo, but I'll suggest otherwise. More weight/lower front end provides more traction on the front in cornering etc.It's pretty obvious really. It comes down to a compromise though, as a certain elevation makes downwards more comfortable and fun..until it's too high and you wash out at speed.

See my confusion ? 😕
So I want to stop washing the front out suddenly (traction or something else?) and be able the lift the front easily. Achieveable?

Sean – nope – one or the other – higher bars move the centre of gravity back and up so reducing front end grip but making it easier to lift the front wheel

Its probably just my riding thats wrong. The SS looks set up right as bikes go, albeit slack forks. Ive got to give it a few more rides out anyhow before I can make any decisions.

what travel are you running? i run 150 on my dmr exalt and i have to run low bars and an negative rise stem to get handling right.

the washing out you experience could be to do with fork damping set up, tyre type, and tyre pressure and general bike skills as much as anything else.

weight over the front wheel is generally seen as a good thing these days (depending on what riding you do)

I don't like this "low front end" business that's going on. It's probably great for a lot of people, but for me, I like having a high rise bar and being able to get a stink on in the techie stuff.

I smell shite.

seen a guy on a green orange in the alps this year with wide flat bars…with about an inch of spacers below the stem. what was that about!!

Van Halen, they are 140mm Pikes.

I've seen this written in some of the mags and online reviews:

"With low risers and stem it keeps the front end nice and low for an attacking stance" (guess which mag).

"It's got a nice and low front end for better grip through the twisties" EH?

I even recall seeing someone in one of the mags write that high risers were a skill compensator for middle aged downhillers.

I think a lot of this is utter guff; you should put on your bike the kit that you're happy with. This may mean low risers (what is the point – just get some flats), it may mean superwide bars, but as long as you're happy with it so what?

Personally, I rejoiced when wide high rise bars became more widely available. Perhaps this is as a result of me being from motorbike background, or maybe because I've broke my back in the past and find it hard work being too leant over – I don't know, I just find high at the front more comfy and confidence inspiring.

high rise, low rise, flat bars. The only differenc they make is where your hands go in relation to height diff between saddles, reach and distance from the other hand. If the same can be achieved with say a flat bar plus spacers and say a high rise bar with no spacers. Then in terms of comfort and geometry it makes no difference. In terms of engineering: moments etc then yes…

There are no low or high front ends there is just right and wrong for you.

The current trend for low rise bars and few spacers comes from dh bikes. 8" of travel up front pitches the front end high enough on its own so therefore they don't use high rise bars. Also as dh bikes have a low saddle height they don't need the additional height of riser bars to stop their centre of gravity being pitched to far forward.

When you consider that a trail bike will have 3-4" shorter forks and will be ridden with the saddle at a height where you get full leg extension it makes sense that you will need a higher rise bar, more spacers, etc to make the bike comfortable and to keep your weight central on the bike.

If you don't believe me try this experiment. Lower the front end of your bike and drop your saddle right down then go and ride a dh run your familiar with. Keep your weight low on the bike and you'll notice that the bike handles great.
Now do the same run with the lower front end but raise the saddle to normal trail/xc height. It'll probably feel horrible in comparison to the first run. It'll feel as if your going to be pitched over the front.
Now raise the front end and keep the saddle high and do the dh run. The bike probably wont feel as stable and as controlled as it did on the first run but it will feel much better than the second run.
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

Just re read my post! Yeah bit of a typo eh! Lower front end DOESNT mean less traction over the front! Sorry!

I agree with jim the saint, probably. I have mid-rise bars over one 5mm spacer on my Heckler, as that's the way I like it. I had more spacers under the bars, and preferred this in general, but had wishy washing out issues. That may have been due to my forks though..(I'm becoming convinced this is the case). Rev's with a firm spring are just not as sensitive as I'd like, but Revs with a medium spring dive like hell for my weight (14.5s). Motion control fiddling on a medium spring made sensitivity worse, IMO.

Putting a shite Panaracer Cinder on the front of the Heckler was probably a foolish thing to do also.

How about some measurements ?
My Remedy is 109cm from floor-centre of the grip. Is that tall?

To be honest, long chainstays and a low bb height make lifting the front end harder and Im quite sure the 456 has both to a certain extent.

Depends what you prefer doing, but I like reasonably high bars because I think it makes the bike a bit more fun to ride and i like doing jumps and such. Just lean over the front end a bit more when going round corners to compensate