how do we change the law so that bike theifs are treated like car theifs and get a proper punishment as for a lot of us are bike/'s are are main transport as well as are recreation tools so.

1.how do we go about it.
2.what we want the new laws to layout.
3.what we want the punishments to be.
4.and how police would handle and prosses complaints.
5.when cyclists are involved in traffic inccidents both ways hit by and hitting how what sould be done and what actions taken.

and the list can go on im staying neutral on this subject but please can everyone thats leaving comments please be sensible without adding fully evil actions (i know you want too but) im hoping we can find the answers and push the law to protect us more.

so lets talk turkey

I'd like to see cyclist abuse classed as a hate crime.
people hate us just because we are there.

Well I guess the number one thing you can do is join the CTC. If you want laws changes then you're going to need a powerful lobby group.
Also you need to be pragmatic, realistic and objective as to what you want to achieve.
So for a start, you'd have to demonstrate that cycle theft is treated less seriously than car theft (personally i've no experience that it is). If you want new laws you have to also think can they be enforced i.e the daftness of the 3 foot gap law campaign, and are they proportionate with similar legislation.

Easy, do what the rest of Western Europe has done and lay blame on the car driver unless they can conclusively prove otherwise. Follow this up with some PCs in disguise with helmet cams to catch and prosecute to the full extent of the law some of the drivers that abuse and cut up bikes, and you'll be well on the way to getting the message across.

First step is make the courts aware that there isn't a god given right to own and run a motor car so that motorists get proper punishments when they do break the law.

http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.com/2009/11/cycling-against-car-culture.html

First step is make the courts aware that there isn't a god given right to own and run a motor car so that motorists get proper punishments when they do break the law.

second step is make the courts aware that there isn't a god given right to ride a bicycle, ignoring any & all rules of the road so that cyclists get proper punishments when they do break the law.

Flaperon – "…but some animals are more equal than others " eh?

I live in a country where that law is in place, and it boils my piss that I can be considered victim or criminal not on my behviour, not on my intent or deeds but solely on the type of transport that I am using.

allow cyclists to be armed.

im a fully paid up member of the ctc and have been for years and my local dark side club (i am a member im sorry) has a good affiliation with them too they do offer a lot of help and offer the chance for a good change.

uplink i have to agree i think both party's are to blame some times road rage isn't only a car thing it does spread to us cyclists too i have shouted at drivers when i could have just explained there mistakes. we are only human.

what do we want law wise would a euro cyclist type law suit the uk's justice system.

and is the three foot law that is wanted actully enforceable

Post a group on Facebook!

cranberry – no, the point of this law is that by reminding car drivers that cyclists are far more vulnerable to accidents and careless mistakes than they are, and so they bear the brunt of responsibility in an accident.

This law would not see a car driver who hit a cyclist who ran a red light prosecuted. It would, however, see a fast and nasty punishment given to someone who turned left across a cyclist and injured them.

Some of the issue lies in trying to get all as many cyclists as possible to stick to the laws of the road! Sorry if this sounds like I'm blaming those people riding BSO's but black clothes (tracksuits around my neck of the woods), no lights, jumping traffic lights, pavement riding etc mean that the rest of society won't respect cycling in general as we're all tarred with the same brush.

Vote for politicians who cycle to work.

Is car theft treated seriously? My ex's car was stolen – the cops wouldn't come out, they said "We don't come and look at spaces in the road where a car used to be" and "It's not proportional" and, on us giving them the telephone number of someone who had rung up for our postcode (the car was for sale) 45 minutes before the car disappeared that "We can't look up who owns that telephone, it's against their human rights".

I think there are a lot of crimes that aren't given enough police time and resources – comes down to funding.

First thing to do would be to decapitate the CTC, they're a disaster.

Karinofnine sorry to here about your car mate maybe the law needs to change its outlook on all theift in general then work down from there should the police have more powers and crown prosecution be more firm and maybe take on the usa's approch and make criminals work there sentance and do all the jobs the nation needs doing from road maintence to digging trenches for power supplys to plumbing on a chain gang

The laws are already in place to protect cyclists from the actions of motorists. What needs to change is the culture of allowance and lax sentencing that comes from the courts.
The police will not act decisively on crimes against cyclists because the courts often throw the cases out – only today a woman who killed a female cyclist in her Range Rover was aquitted because of 'evidence' she 'may' have fainted at the wheel of her car, even though she was using her mobile phone 3 minutes before the accident/assault.

We don't need new laws – we need the existing legal structure enforcing and supporting.

Chaingangs! You read my mind. That'd change their thieving habits pretty quick. Personally, I'd like to slam their hands in a car door till all their fingers were broken.. um but I don't think you're allowed to do that… (That's for bikes AND cars BTW)

First thing to do would be to decapitate the CTC, they're a disaster.

Of course they are – things would be so much better if they hadn't done all the campaigning they do, got changes made to the HC etc. 🙄

so how do we all get the laws enforced properly and actions taken instead of being swept aside as some feel

CTC are the cocks that tried to prevent motorcycles from using bus lanes. Single handedly they've persuaded yet another group of road users to hate cyclists. Genius.

The laws are already in place (with the possible exception of the assumed liability), what's needed is the resources and will to enforce them.

I'd have a crack unit of plain clothes police on bikes with helmet cams and the power to pull over and fine on the spot any motorist who did anything illegal – I'd make about £10 million in a few weeks I reckon by which time the problems would go away. 🙂

Daft ideas like a mandatory 3ft passing width just detract from the main point.

Along with enforcing existing laws and rigorously prosecuting transgressors, we need to actively change the mindset of the British public.
As the link above (cyclingsilk) points out, we live in a culture that actively accepts the collateral damage done by the motor car and that needs to change. The only practical way is numbers, the more people cycle the more motorists will accept cyclists as having a right to use the roads.
One way is to discourage short-distance car journeys through taxation etc – not too popular though.
The other side of the coin is a program of cycle instruction for riders, we've all seen new cyclists wobbling around totally unaware of how to ride in traffic/on the road.
We cannot force cyclists to take instruction as that would prevent the uptake but perhaps free lessons for those who wish to commute but are scared of the roads?
Run this alongside the more rigid enforcement of the laws designed to protect the vulnerable and it would take the venom away from the oh-so-hard-done-to motorist who is being prevented from exercising his 'right' to drive without due care & attention.

Dream on. This flamin country does punish any crime. when murder gets a few years how can anything else get dealt with. Wasting your time.

Tha existing road traffic laws in Britain are IMO the fairest in Europe, as cyclists actually have a right to use the road over stupid cycle lanes, are not yet held responsible for not wearing a helmet/ Hi viz,and can legally take any turn, roundabout or junction in the same way as a car.
All that is required is enforcement (for everybody BTW)
And there lies the problem, most people in this country, be they the public, the police or the the courts dont see bad behavior as a real crime, just 'an accident'
The presumed liability thing would probably make a difference, since it would make 'the operation of dangerous equipment, ie, a vehicle, something that its user would have to take more responsibility for than at present. Having said that, if that means that we're then required to use cyclelanes etc, they can shove it.

5thElefant wrote,

"CTC are the cocks that tried to prevent motorcycles from using bus lanes. Single handedly they've persuaded yet another group of road users to hate cyclists. Genius. "

Bingo. And not only that, but they did so after both London studies proved that motorbikes in buslanes led to a decrease in cyclist casualties. So, they campaigned against cyclist safety purely to inconvenience a competing roadusing group. Genius.

It's ironic really, because the CTC and the MAG have a lot in common. Nothing good mind.

Flaperon – if you want to "remind" car drivers of something make up a poster.

If you want to pander to prejudice and create injustice then make one select group of people have to prove their innocence.

Och, and while I dont usually agree with 5thElefants views, he's right that the CTC's or specifically, Roger Geffen's, vendetta against motorcyclists has been a massive own goal.
Though at least half of the blame has to lie with Motorcyclenews for fanning the flames.
(To anyone who doesn't read MCN, its a bit like the worst aspects of a tabloid outrage-sheet crossed with a bikers magazine)

So the CTC made one cock-up (FWIW I don't agree with some of the other things they campaign for either), and that makes them worse than useless? How much legal right do you think you'd have to ride off road without the CTC?

aracer, your absolutely right about the CTC,as a rule they're a good thing, but occasionally they do stuff that's downright eccentric,such as the above.
I've always enjoyed good cameraderie with bikers when cycling in traffic, but since the Geffen/MCN hatefest I've had several near punch-ups with guys( usually ratbikers to be fair 🙄 ) trying to give a bit of aggro at lights, or while filtering.
I dont think that would have happened before.
How has the CTC's misjudgement made my life safer there?

aracer weote

"How much legal right do you think you'd have to ride off road without the
CTC?"

We'd have the same, the CTC's rarely bothered itself about Scotland. What you'd have, would depend on what you'd got instead of the CTC, but their performance over bridleways isn't impressive.

I'm not saying let's get rid of the CTC, I'm saying decapitate it. Get rid of its leaders, make it known that it's a fresh slate. Start repairing the damage done and making links with other groups with similiar interests rather than considering them as competition.

The real sadness of the motorbike madness is that motorcyclists and cyclists are the most natural allies out there. We share the exact same risks, we're the 2 most exposed groups of road users, and we've got very few points of contention. But because the CTC sees scooters and motorbikes as competition to cycling commuters, and as a weak target, they've ended up being enemies. It's just absurd. It's like if Churchill, faced with Hitler in Europe, had declared war on Wales and said "I'm fighting for your interests!"

If every mtb CTC member took their money and gave it to the BBT instead you'd probably be better off.

Its not change in the law we need but a change it attitudes – and that is much harder to acheive

There was crap pagespace given to CTC in Singletrack mag last year.

In short,
We don't need a change of rights because we've got trailcentres. Everyone rides there. But Snowdon voluntary agreement works well…….

Aspirational