As the title, how can you prove that you have taken a particular photo?

Digital photos have a fingerprint that links them to your camera if that helps

Think there is some info included with the picture about what camera make/model was used and when it was taken etc – don’t think it can tie it to an individual camera though.

With some cameras like Nikon DSLRs you can enter a comment which gets stored in the metadata….not sure if you can lock this into the image though or whether any tom, dick or harry could edit it out again.

rockthreegozy – Member

Digital photos have a fingerprint that links them to your camera if that helps

Go on, is this in the EXIF? if so where should I look? If not, where should I look?

Always shoot in raw, but never give ou the Raw files, that way you can always prove you are the owner.

Nikon sell Image Authentication Software which is used when taking digital photos of crime scenes so they can prove they haven’t be tampered with. That’s a pretty good way. Anything else can be faked.

I am guessing that putting a mirror in the picture is just not going to cut it?
I am sure you can get watermarking software that hides the info in the file or picture without affecting the image? Long time since I looked though…

Too late for that. 🙁
The photo has been taken and I need to prove that I took it, rockthreegozy has the most promising lead so far.

GrahamS – Member

Nikon sell Image Authentication Software which is used when taking digital photos of crime scenes so they can prove they haven’t be tampered with. That’s a pretty good way. Anything else can be faked.

Not really looking at image manipulation, more at who was holding the camera, cheers.

Tracker1972 – Member

I am guessing that putting a mirror in the picture is just not going to cut it?
I am sure you can get watermarking software that hides the info in the file or picture without affecting the image? Long time since I looked though…

The mirror might have to be a solution 😕

Watermarking doesn’t demonstrate that I actually took the photo.

I do actually have several hundred witnesses, but need something concrete!!!!

Canon BTW.

If you’ve got any recent version of Photoshop, you can view the EXIF data using Bridge. If not, go download something like THIS PROG which does the same thing.

EXIF data is the closect thing to a ‘fingerprint’ and will tell you the camera make and model, shutter speed and apperture, etc…

EXIF data will tell you make and model of the camera that took it, plus the exact date and time it was taken. But that is all editable and can easily be removed (deliberately or accidentally).

Sorry to get your hopes up- I was referring to EXIF data- but as I now realise it doen’t tie it to you.

user-removed – Member

If you’ve got any recent version of Photoshop, you can view the EXIF data using Bridge. If not, go download something like THIS PROG which does the same thing.

EXIF data is the closect thing to a ‘fingerprint’ and will tell you the camera make and model, shutter speed and apperture, etc…

But doesn’t show that I was holding a particular camera..

It’s a question of copyright and I need to prove without doubt that I was holding the camera that took the picture… So really I’m looking for info held in the EXIF or somewhere that will link to the exact camera.

Moon on a stick anyone???

rockthreegozy – Member

Sorry to get your hopes up- I was referring to EXIF data- but as I now realise it doen’t tie it to you.

No worries. Hopes were up briefly but now back down where they belong. 😆

GrahamS – Member

EXIF data will tell you make and model of the camera that took it, plus the exact date and time it was taken. But that is all editable and can easily be removed (deliberately or accidentally).

So there is nothing to prove who took the photo.

I guess the mirror is the solution…

Do you have the ORIGINAL file that you downloaded from the camera?

If you do AND it is more complete than the copy (ie before edits) then that would prove it.

I wonder if an electronic version of “posting yourself a recorded delivery letter and not opening it” would work?
Post it to a private Flickr account or something, you then have an independent holder of the image who presumably knows when it arrived. At least you can then prove you had possession of the image before anyone else has used it (they cannot post/use/publish it before your upload time).
May not be perfect but certainly free to start with and better than nothing, did you post the image in question on the net before it was taken, may even help in this case?

Were you being paid to take the pictures? That could be a basis for your claim to ownership AFAIK

Original file is the only answer I think – which is why I have a HUGE hard disk and gazillions of DVDs of RAW files kicking about the place 😉

…but if someone steals yer pics, you dont have gazillions of pounds and the time to take them to court anyways ;OP

RobS – Member

Original file is the only answer I think – which is why I have a HUGE hard disk and gazillions of DVDs of RAW files kicking about the place [;-)]

Taking the above responses and putting them into one quote, I have chosen the above. This answers the question, in my opinion, that the people using the photo(s) didn’t take it(them), but it doesn’t prove that I did!

How the **** do you prove copyright??????

I have already spoken to my lawyer and stated that, not only do I have the original copy, but I could take you to the (more or less) exact spot that any of 30,000 pictures were taken. She seems to think that this might not be good enough for the judge. Aaargh!

Thanks for the help so far.

Dosent Exif and Metadata also contain the exact time/camera and other settings? I also thought it recorded the serial number of the camera as a way of proof, though I might be talking out of my bum!

(I wasent, though its not as easy as I thought!)

good old Wikipedia! – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXIF Check out the problems section at the bottom and you will see that the serial number is stored in the MakerNote details, though this is almost impossible to view according to Wikipedia.

NB: all EXIF data can be removed or rewritten

And to add to that Simon, aparently true EXIF data dosent really exist for RAW files either!

Presuming you have the hi-def original file, irrespective of exif you should be able to prove that yours was the original.

A 100% magnification would show that?

……and yes it could be fabricated, but reasonable doubt and all that.

Civil suit requires a balance of probabilities, not reasonable doubt proof! I’m assuming you just want money not a jail term for the criminal.

Get someone to take a picture of you taking the picture

😉

Sandwich – Member

Civil suit requires a balance of probabilities, not reasonable doubt proof! I’m assuming you just want money not a jail term for the criminal.

I’m also talking about the Spanish legal syatem which isn’t quite the same as UK law.
I’m not sure if my lawyer is trying to get me to build an ablsolutely concrete case where there is a high probability of winning or just trying to put me off by asking impossible questions. She isn’t a copyright lawyer and therefore isn’t up to date with copyright law or the laws around the internet.

She was just asking questions she thought the judge might ask and this one had me stumped. Even with the above advice and suggestions, there are photos and videos of me taking pictures but there are only a few pictures which can be identified as mine due to exclusive access.
Even with a photo of me taking the picture, this is not conclusive that I took the picture. And this is the absurdity.

There is a possibility that the judge won’t, according to the lawyer, understand the technology and therefore reject the case.
So I need something that is 100% concrete.

Remember this is Spain, the lawyer also said that if the hosting site is not 100% secure, then the responsiblity may lie there!!!! Which basically means there is no copyright protection in Spain, Screen print anyone??

Good news is I’ve found the serial number in the EXIF which will tie the photo to the camera… 😀

We’re talking about 700+ photos which are being used on a web site without permission, so alot of money..

Also, does anyone know how they are able to capture the last 20 pics I upload? What software they are using? Can I block it? Does the software save a copy of the photo on a hard drive or anywhere else??

Thanks again.

If you have the serial number in the exif that is a good start – I stick a copyright notice and “taken by” notice in there too.

Stopping people downloading? Not sure – I usually use Adobe Flash galleries and can then set the picture to not be downloadable, not that I bother as I only upload low res versions (max 1000px on the long side).

I hate plastering pictures with watermarks – kind of defeats the point of putting them up in the first place. I may look into the invisible ones sometime though since I have had a fair few images harvested in the past 🙁 Usually just the threat of taking action does the trick though.

Were did you upload them too and were are they being used and what for out of interest? I keep a fair few on line as well but all my work is shot in RAW format and are marked with a copyright/creative comons notice.
There was a while ago a law being passed through US courts that would allow image libaries to basicly freely use/sell any image they find on the web for wich any ownership can be proven, not sure if it was passed in the end as i no longer work in the industry.

Simon

Stopping people downloading? Not sure – I usually use Adobe Flash galleries and can then set the picture to not be downloadable, not that I bother as I only upload low res versions (max 1000px on the long side).

But that wouldn’t stop someone taking a sreen shot then taking the picture, would it?

I hate plastering pictures with watermarks – kind of defeats the point of putting them up in the first place. I may look into the invisible ones sometime though since I have had a fair few images harvested in the past [:-(] Usually just the threat of taking action does the trick though.

I too hate watermarks, but it still doesn’t prove who took the picture. I am at the stage of threatening legal action, but that doesn’t solve the problem of saved copies which they will be able to use in the future, pay me for the things and you can use them!!

Were did you upload them too and were are they being used and what for out of interest?

They were uploaded to flickr with an all rights reserved tag, they are pictures of cycle racing and being used on a web site of a cycle shop, I take pictures to sell so I can put food on my table.

have you contacted shop and asked them for payment and they are saying it’s not your photo?

Also, does anyone know how they are able to capture the last 20 pics I upload? What software they are using? Can I block it? Does the software save a copy of the photo on a hard drive or anywhere else??

If you were using flickr. Then presumably just saw one of your photo’s clicked on your profile and downloaded the 20 most recent, anyone can do this is the files are publicly visible. Or am I missing something?

have you contacted shop and asked them for payment and they are saying it’s not your photo?

They’ve been sent a letter explaining that they do not have permission to use the photos and been given a reasonable time period to remove them.
They have ignored the request and continue harvesting pictures from the flickr pages!!

They also use my name and give the impression that I am friend of the shop and give authority and permission. Ceeky chunts!

Are they still stealing your pics ? If so then set a honeypot trap and upload some pics which have an invisible watermark inside them. Wait for them to nick them and when they appear on the web then think of a way for someone independent to verify they’re yours with the invisible watermark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_watermarking

If you were using flickr. Then presumably just saw one of your photo’s clicked on your profile and downloaded the 20 most recent, anyone can do this is the files are publicly visible. Or am I missing something?

They are running some sort of software which is able to download the images from the flickr pages automatically within about 10-15 minutes of uploading them.
I am aware that people will download the odd picture for personal use, and this is fine as the images are low resolution. Taking in excess of 700 and putting them on your website then claiming to have some sort of relationship with the photographer is quite frankly extracting the urine.

andywhit – Member

Are they still stealing your pics ? If so then set a honeypot trap and upload some pics which have an invisible watermark inside them. Wait for them to nick them and when they appear on the web then think of a way for someone independent to verify they’re yours with the invisible watermark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_watermarking

Watermarking wasn’t the issue, the key point was demonstrating that I took the pictures as my lawyer stated that the judge would want some hard evidence that I was the photographer. I could take any picture from here and watermark it. What does that prove?
I think the answer is with the exif info and serial number of the camera. Then it comes down to the judges opinion.

The other way is that the shop has to demonstrate that they do have permission and the relationship with the photographer, which obviously they can’t…

Have you tried contacting the shop in question? make them aware of what they are doing, first thing i normaly do (and i have had to once) is contact them and inform them of what they are doing and invoice them 😀 then i would take it further and seek legal assistance.

>I think the answer is with the exif info and serial number of the camera. Then it comes down to the judges opinion.

Indeed, but obviously you could use software to add the serial number of your camera to any old image.

</devil’s advocate>

simonk – Member

Have you tried contacting the shop in question? make them aware of what they are doing, first thing i normaly do (and i have had to once) is contact them and inform them of what they are doing and invoice them [:D] then i would take it further and seek legal assistance.

All been done and this is where the original question was raised, my lawyer was playing devil’s advocate by asking the question. Further details have been explained above.

Cheers everyone.