See there you go again, such an argumentative tone.

EDIT: Was the reply i responded to conciliatory and cordial then 😉

I suspect we all accept that when you pay more they are nicer to you – may read antagonistic but not meant to be.

However the point remains that the majority do better with our system than theirs but some of the better off there often do better with their provision than we do.

Ok so I will tell you that the level of service in a US doctors is significantly better than a UK doctors, based on personal opinion of course.

No-one’s disputing the quality of healthcare in the US.

We are criticising its availability.

I’ve said my piece, carry on with the bashing.

Nutter. You are taking this way too personally.

Inequality in the US is a HUGE issue (as it is elsewhere), I have no idea why you are in denial about it. Actually, I do – you like the US and you have taken it personally.

Well the US is just a splodge of land on a map – it’s not a personal thing.

no one is bashing they are saying what you said was wrong because it was wrong.

I have not taken anything personally, that is your assumption. I spend around equal amounts of time between the UK and US and they both have big inequality levels of a similar proportion.

No name calling, it does not promote equality.

no one is bashing they are saying what you said was wrong because it was wrong.

I will let you have that last word, I know how important it is to you.

😀

LHS – you evidently don’t see much. The inequality in the US is far greater and wide-reaching. The disparity in medical services between the wealthy and the poor is vast and one of the huge problems.
Saying that you have a better level of service at a US doctor is because you are privileged and paying a lot of money for the pleasure.
Your figures so far don’t mention copay or anything else related to additional costs.
Your figures didn’t mention the inability of people to get healthcare cover (before the ACA) with pre-existing medical conditions.
You’ve not mentioned an infant mortality rate that reflects poorer babies dying more often.
“A recent Harvard University study showed that medical expenses account for approximately 62 percent of personal bankruptcies in the US. Interestingly, the study also showed that 72 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy due to medical expenses had some type of health insurance, thus debunking the myth that only the uninsured face financial catastrophes due to medical-related expenses.”

The American healthcare system is terrible. Most Americans think it is normal and are not angry about it. The most vocal can afford it so they don’t really care. There is no real safety net. Medicare and Medicaid are not there for all.

No name calling….
I will let you have that last word, I know how important it is to you.

Do you often find yourself doing the thing you just said we should not do – what with that and the demand for cats and then failing?

You really do need to calm down it really was not big deal and I dont know why you got so worked up about it.

Despite the running disagreement on facts derailing things slightly, I’d like to at least say thanks to everyone for not going down the ‘Americans are stupid’ route.

Some context: I moved from the UK to the USA eight years ago, have an American wife, kids and extended family, plus many many friends and colleagues. I have applied for US citizenship and should have my final interview in a few weeks. I love this country and the people in it. My experience of the US healthcare system consists of two operations, my wife giving birth, multiple family members with surgeries ranging from knee/shoulder/hip stuff through to cancer treatment.

The US healthcare system in general is rubbish and broken.

I am one of the lucky ones. I have excellent healthcare that that is mostly subsidized and costs me $500 per month pre-tax. My employer pays about $1,500. This covers health, dental and vision. $25 per visit copay to any type of medical office. Dental has a $1000 deductible (excess) per year. Medical is $500. Vision insurance is almost useless and gives us about $100 in value per family member per year.

My in-laws are both in their late 70s and use medicare (medicare is for old, disabled or dying people). The MIL has had multiple surgeries and even acupuncture through it. The FIL is about to have a cancerous tumor removed. Hasn’t cost them much out of pocket.

A friend of a friend ended up in an unlucky situation due to redundancy and depressed local job market. Living technically on the poverty line, with neither partner working and the wife pregnant, Medicaid (medicaid is essentially for people at or below the poverty threshold) handled it due to their dire financial situation.

I have seen two doctors this week. One is basically my GP and we talked about preventative/proactive care for someone my age. The other was a specialist discussing options for repairing one of my joints. He wrote out a matrix of problems and options and we discussed a sensible approach with surgery as the last option. Neither doctor ordered any unnecessary tests, MRIs, extra doctors or seemed to waste any resources that I saw.

All sounds great so far, right? Well, like I said, we are lucky. Right illnesses, right coverage, right ages, right amount of poverty etc.

See the graph above posted by Molgrips? Eligibility for medicaid is done on a poverty threshold based upon a purely statistical value (x% above the poverty line threshold). Stick a range in there from $15k to $25k and you have a decent range of people at or below the poverty line. Once you get above that, you then have millions (that’s millions) of people who don’t qualify for medicaid, yet can’t afford medical insurance.

That’s what much of the talk in this thread has alluded to – the cracks (sorry, gaping hole the size of the Grand Canyon) that a great many people fall into…and literally die in. If they can afford it at all after putting food on the table, the coverage they can afford is totally inadequate for anything more serious than a sprained ankle. God forbid they require long term treatment of any kind.

(cont…)

Well, I’m quite calm and happy, thanks.

(…cont)

That’s the point that seems to be tripping up LHS. Yes, if you have healthcare, the standard is generally excellent, and there are excellent doctors who do not waste money. But…I can’t think of a single argument that can defend the current position with so many people being unable to afford decent coverage. Whether the NHS compares or not is a moot point – there is a problem here and neither of the two major political parties have a satisfactory answer.

The healthcare industry is exactly that – an industry. Looking too deeply into the inner workings of it is scary. It is ripe for abuse by opportunistic people within it and they seem to take full advantage of it. One post in this thread states a minor visit to the emergency room resulted in a barrage of tests. It was in LA, which does not surprise me in the slightest. The system practically encourages doctors to do more than necessary due to financial incentives. It’s all a bit wrong.

How do we fix it? No idea. I’m a Liberpublicrat or Republidemotarian or something. I don’t subscribe wholly to the political ideals of any single party. If, as a nation, we hold the constitution so close to our hearts, and ‘we, the people’ are close to each other, then it couldn’t be a great leap to make an amendment to promise that we will protect the lives and health of the men, women and children of this nation.

The Republicans will recoil though, as this would represent not just a step in the ‘wrong’ direction for them, but a complete devolution into irrevocable communism. I support many of the Republican ideals regarding our liberties and capitalism, and can understand the fear that our freedom will be eroded and that even baby steps in that direction could lead directly to a nanny state controlling every move you make. I also support what our Democrat party is trying to achieve with helping the disadvantaged and can understand their bewilderment at why people would be against it at all.

Let me give an example of how a Republican might see things. The NRA is fighting proposed legislation regarding restrictions on gun purchases. Some of these surround mental health. Keep guns out of the hands of nutters. Pretty sensible, right? But…what constitutes a mental health condition that would preclude someone from owning a gun? Here’s where the fear starts. Schizophrenia? Sure. Manic Depression? Sounds fair. Mild depression? Well, not sure about that. Attention deficit disorder? Erm… Saw a shrink once for work induced stress? Hang on a minute… See where it goes? Now, imagine we’re not talking about guns here, but other things such as, well, pick anything… That’s what many right wing Americans are afraid of deep down.

Like I said, I think the system is broken but I don’t have an answer so I’ll just post this on STW instead. Sorry for the length, but I don’t post much and I thought you may be interested in an ex-pat’s viewpoint.

Oh, and don’t get me started on work ethic and time off. The attitude towards time off, especially by the C-suite, is absolutely terrible. I’m senior enough in my company to do my bit to change things, but it’s an uphill cultural struggle.

Makes me angry, it does… 😛

Legalalien (great, now I’ve got that tune in my head 😆 ), thank you you for your well thought out and nicely written post(s). It enlightens as much as it depresses… 😉

Edit; what’s a C-suite?
Editedit; don’t worry, Googled it…

On the medical thing, I was chatting to some guys when I was over, one was really happy as he was 6 months off finishing paying off his medical bills from breaking his arm 4 years previously…
Others were talking about never paying off tuition/university fee’s.

In a world where the individual has to foot the bill equality goes down the pan. The chance to break out is gone from before some people were born. In the long term it will harm the US as a nation.

No name calling, it does not promote equality.

It does if you call everybody a twitwaffle.

Others were talking about never paying off tuition/university fees.

This increasingly happens in the UK…

I think (but could be wrong) it’s more of a problem in the US…

Despite the running disagreement on facts derailing things slightly

There is no disagreement no-one agrees with LHS and he offered no facts to support his statement he just got angry when challenged for some

Your post neatly sums up what we all thought.

In the US, as I understand it, your student loans are just regular commercial loans, with a regular interest rate and regular debt collectors chasing you. Regardless of your income.

In the UK the interest rate is negligible, repayments are on a sliding scale according to income, and you are effectively not on the hook for it. Even though the amount might be approaching the US, the terms aren’t anything like as onerous .

JY, do you just stalk threads looking for an argument? It really is very odd behaviour.

Some good points above and I would second the comments made about Medicare and Medicaid, this is something most Europeans don’t understand.

On the tuition fees yeah they can be incredibly expensive in the U.S. There does seem to be more general access to charity and bursaries though. I know a lot of friends kids who pay nothing for tuition in the U.S. but also know a few who pay an eye watering amount. This is one of the very few areas where racial inequality is slightly improving with a huge amount of access to free tuition for minorities.

JY, do you just stalk threads looking for an argument? It really is very odd behaviour.

Yes that it its definitely not got anything to do with the fact that what you said was wrong and you took the huff when challenged by everyone and decided to personally attack me and then blame me for it.

I’ll take that as a yes.

I would offer up some advice, read through your contribution to the thread. Just read it. Not once have you contributed a fact. You came in half way through and just started attacking. You have done it to me and many others on a regular basis. I have provided factual based data on poverty gap, Medicare, Medicaid, university tuition, racial inequality.

Your main contribution was calling people stupid. Contributions like yours are the reason this forum has gone so downhill over the years, a shadow of its former self. I will let you have the last word.

The US has Medicaid and medicare. No one slips through the net.

This is till not true and all it took was you not getting this upset when challenged.

Genuinely my last word as I think you just want to do this and blame me for it.

Genuinely my last word as I think you just want to do this and blame me for it.

I bet it’s not. 😆

Get a freaking room you pair of ‘tards ffs.