What’s the best solution for keeping a chain tight with horizontal dropouts? I’m currently using On one chain tugs (qr wheel) but i tend to find after a bit of up hill grinding the wheel is moving slightly forward causing the chain to slacken off. Is there a really good chain tug that will work with qr wheels and not budge under power?

put another one on the NDS?

Any reasonable chaintug (On-One included) will still be holding your DS end of the QR in the same place it started. What might have shifted is the wheel slipping forward a smidge on the NDS.

You may also want to check the circularity of your chainring on the chainset – if it’s off a bit you will get variations in chain tension depending on crank position.

I have 2x surly tugnuts on left and right to keep things rock solid as Im a 95Kg honker.

I have never tried, but was under the impression that QR + horizontal dropout SS was a combination destined for failure?

I have allen bolts holding my rear wheel in place on the SS and have never needed chaintugs. It only ever moves if I haven’t done the bolts up tight enough, the rest of the time it’s solid. If you have the right size tool with you you don’t need QR.

It should improve if you have some decent chain tugs, but what would also help is to use these bolted QRs from Gusset instead of the lever type. You can get more crank on then.

Already have a tensioner on the NDS, and at the moment they are both fully screwed in, i did think about removing a link from the chain but with the tyres i don’t think their would be enough room between the chain stays to move the wheel that far forward, i think some of the problem may be chain stretch.

Stoner, do you find the Surly tug nuts better than other chain tugs? i’m no lightweight either and can stomp a big gear when needed and that seems to be part of the problem.

Im not sure I agree there kayak. I reckon you’d get more force across the QR shaft using the levered cam than you would through a 5mm allen bolt torqued-up. Either way, there’s no reason not to use a QR, I’ve done so for years, but if you are prone to tension loss and you’re tied to QR hubs, you may need a second tensioner.

Bazz – surly tugnuts are the daddy of all tug nuts. Speak to Tim @ Sideways or Charlie the bike monger.
http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/surly-tuggnut-30-p.asp
http://www.sidewayscycles.com/products/index.php?id=462&clid=24

If they are fully screwed in then you may not have enough thread to set the tension correctly. Then I think you need to think about dropping a link. If you cant remove a link and still get the axle in the drop out then you may need to drop or add some teeth front & back.

Thanks for the reply Stoner, I don’t really want to start changing the chainring and sprocket so was just thinking about a half link, I currently have a SRAM single speed specific chain, are the half links universal and could I use them with the joining link that the SRAM chain comes with? As you can probably tell I’m a bit of a novice at this single speed malarkey!

Im afraid Ive never used a half link, but if it’s a 1/8″ I dont see why it cant work with a SRAM PC1. One end of it will fit to the chain with a powerlink, I think the other end uses the pin that comes supplied.

Cheers, might give one a go.

The best halflinks are the Gussett Slink ones (that are more like a link and a half) – fit them with two master links.

This one.

Or alternatively you could drill a 2nd hole in you’re tugs allowing you to wind the adjusters out a bit more.
As long as there’s enough material on the tugs you should be ok.

Those are nice and neat Andy. Have filed in memory banks

Don’t know what hub you have, but if you have a Shimano wheel then just rebuild the thing with a £5 ish solid axle from a well stocked bike shop (cro-mo ones also usually on the shelf in most Halfords).

Gert big nuts don’t slip – especially ones with built in floating serrated washers.

The best solution is rear facing tension bolts as seen in my Genesis ioid. These tension the chain and the QR holds the wheel fast. Tugs are an ugly solution. Not used them on my road and track frames and see no need for my mtb either.

theflatboy – Member
I have never tried, but was under the impression that QR + horizontal dropout SS was a combination destined for failure?…

I’ve done 24 hour races with no problem.

However if you are using the chain tensioner on the QR shaft I can see why it wouldn’t work.

For this job I use the cheap stamped steel tensioners (about £2 a set) and put them on the inside of the dropout. That way they are pulling on the hub, not the QR shaft. That setup is totally reliable.

I use a single Surly tugnut and a nutted skewer like the one pictured above and never had issues with it slipping. That’s riding 32:16 on Dartmoor too.

What Stoner says makes sense but I did have problems using a standard QR before I replaced it with the nutted skewer.

epic – the surly has an insert (you can see it under the QR lever nut in my photo) that has a small diameter hole that keeps the qr shaft centred and puts the rearward force on the qr shaft right at the point that the shaft exits the hub end cap.

Used Surly Tugnut and decent QR (Salsa usually) for many years with no problems at all – just the one on the drive side. Definitely the best chain tug I’ve used out of quite a few.

If it’s moving with a chain tug then I’d be blaming the chain tug. You shouldn’t be getting that much slackening over a short period. Many years ago I sued On-One tugs and seem to remember having to use them on both side, but these were really fiddly ones with two skiing tensioners on each tug.

The Surly ones, with one good sized tensioner and a choice of axle holes have always worked really well for me.

Pic is a bit too arty… but you get the idea 😉

surly20061127-225244 by Jonathan Bateman, on Flickr

If you’ve not got them already try a QR skewer with a metal (brass?) insert under the cam not the more common plastic type. The metal insert is less ‘springy’ than the plastic one so gives a better clamping force.

I use hope skewers on my Lurcher with only a drive side on-one tug with no issuse or slipping.

Edit. or of course use a proper internal cam Shimano type QR, which we all know are the best but not quite bling enough 😉

Andy

If it’s moving with a chain tug then it’s the chain tug not setup correctly. No matter how you clamp it, I admit some clamping devices do a much better job of “clamping”, the wheel cannot move forwards because the tug is up against a immovable object, the frame.

As others have and I could offer better solutions, but you’ve got the frame you have and need a decent chain tug. The Surly ones are IME the best. When setting up make sure the chain tug is pulling the wheel back to tension the chain, then clamp up, then double check the tensioner is still sitting against the frame and the tensioning screws are still “tensioning” against the dropout.

If that doesn’t solve it then I’d look at the chain ring. Is it properly tight and running concentric? Do you tight and loose spots on the chain tension when you turn the cranks? If so the chain ring might be running out out concentric and or your chain might be over stretched in certain places.

Not related but what chainring and sprocket sizes are you using?

Stoner – Member
epic – the surly has an insert (you can see it under the QR lever nut in my photo) that has a small diameter hole that keeps the qr shaft centred and puts the rearward force on the qr shaft right at the point that the shaft exits the hub end cap.

OK, that’s a better solution than mine then. Thanks for the info, I didn’t notice that.

On reflection ^ wot he said ^

and I Loctite the chaintug tensioning bolts too.

Will try a surly tugnut but i am intrigued by the rear facing tension bolts that TiRed mentioned, got a link? Chainring (surly ss specific) seems fine (34t with 20t rear sprocket bbs)the slackness is constant when it goes slack.

Thanks for the replies all, plenty of helpful info.

I think TiRED is referencing the internal bolt system genesis use, here’s mine with surly tug bolt for tool free adjustment. I use one each side, works very well and nice and tidy.

Does no one use snail cams for this purpose? They get used a lot on trials bikes and are considered a lot more reliable than tug tensioners (the forces involved in trials are quite significant) but I haven’t seen them for MTBs. No reason why they shouldn’t work although they need to key into something on the frame.

http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/media.php?group=guides&id=5

as you mention, the frame would have to be designed to take the cams. Not to mention they’re also designed for a 10mm axle. The OP is using QR. So all in all not really much help to the OP’s problem.

I like On-One’s brief flirtation with taperlock swapouts.

Yeah it was more a bit of musing as to why MTB frames weren’t developed with this in mind.

Track ends or horizontal drop outs? Different thing.

Bazz.

The slackness thing was more when everything is tensioned up properly, before you ride it and you spin the cranks. Check that the chain tension is even at various points along the chain. Spin the cranks a bit, next section of chain, etc. until you’ve checked all of the chain. Just wondering if you have an overly stretched chain.

The slack chain wouldn’t be to the extent that you are describing, but it might indicate the chainring out of concentricity.

TiRED,

what QR setup do you use? My rear facing bolts on my ioid need replacing too as they’ve gone wonky!