Looking at getting some 29er Hope Hoops built up (Arch on Pro 2 Evo) and the options i’m being given offer Pro 2 Std or Pro 2 SP (sraight pull) which are slightly more expensive.

I appreciate that the hubs are the same but what are the pros and cons of a std (crossed?) lacing pattern compared to the straight pull? Are they designed for different applications or is one stronger than the other?

Wheels would be going onto a Planet X Dirty Harry frame (i’m too heavy for Crests and Flows are a bit overkill for this bike).

Thanks.

I do believe (from reading the wheelbuilding book) that crossover is stronger….
But happy to be updated on that.

DrP

There are 2 questions there…

Regardless of the spoke / hub interface (straight pull or conventional), they’ll need to build the wheel with the spokes interlaced (crossed) since you’re going to be running disc brakes (due to the forces involved).

But I don’t think that’s what they’re asking you – it sounds like they’re offering you the choice of straight pull hubs or hubs with conventional flanges. Straight pull should be stronger since the spokes don’t have bends in them, but it might be hard to get replacements when you do snap one.

Are you confusing straight pull spokes with radially laced spokes?

Thaks Simon, looks like you’re correct.

Just spoke to Hope and it is just the spokes that are different, the j bend spokes aren’t quite as strong as the straight pull apparently so at 15+ stone i’ll probably plump for the straight pull for the sake of an extra £25.
Cheers

My mates about same weight as you and the SP front kept pinging out of his Hopes.

Do both hubs have the same number of spokes? I had some of the wheels with the three bolt disks and straight pull spokes. These were not up to my weight but Mrs Bruce being somewhat lighter has had no problems with them.

Do both hubs have the same number of spokes?

My SP Hopes, and my old set of “normal” hubs are both 32 spoke.

Bugger. Was set on the SP ones but now i’m thinking j pull after the above comments.

I pulled a SP spoke out of my Road wheels so maybe i should play safe with the j pull cheaper version as i don’t tend to be overly abusive to my wheels.

Both wheels are 32h front and rear.

I’ve run the SP ones for 2 years now, with no problems whatsoever, not heavy (80kg) but hamfisted.

And you get a couple of spare spokes per wheel FWIW, with Hope Hoops.

Straight pull should be stronger since the spokes don’t have bends in them

That’s what I was told. When I mentioned it to my father (an ex-toolmaker from back in the day) he seemed surprised that a J-bend was weaker, ho hummed and said that they must know what they’re doing.

Anyone got anything definitive…?

Just be aware that straight pull spokes may be harder to get hold of should you break one, and truing them is trickier too. No reason not to get them, just so you know! 🙂

Think i may go for the j bend. I probably won’t notice the difference and it’s £25 cheaper as well which can be put to good use elsewhere in the build.

Thanks for the responses chaps.

When I worked-out a build recently the weight difference between the DT straight pull and their Revs was quite considerable. Even more of an incentive to stick with Js…

Just for the sake of balance I have Hope Hoops with Flows and SP hubs. To date (18 months) I have not had a single problem with them. I’m a complete porker so they do for me!

Chris

Supposedly straight-pull is stronger. But I’ve only ever seen one spoke break at the J, mostly they go at the butting, the nipple, or wherever the stick/mech went through them.

Straight pull spokes are harder to find, only difference that counts IMO. When I broke one in my Traversees, there wasn’t a single SP spoke in Fort William/Nevis Range- not as though there’s not many cyclists or broken spokes! Nice chap in Offbeat straightened a j-bend for me 😉

Snapped a few j-bend spokes and no sp ones.

If your worried about spares availability, just buy a few then you’ve got em IF you need em.

When I worked-out a build recently the weight difference between the DT straight pull and their Revs was quite considerable

In what way? It’s funny how people just confuse everything. The rev is a very very tricky spoke to use and I would certainly not reconmmed it for 15+ stone people or 29ers, let alone a wheel for both.
The only diference between a SP comp and a J bend comp is the removal of the bend, the “wickest” spot of the spoke.

Supposedly straight-pull is stronger. But I’ve only ever seen one spoke break at the J, mostly they go at the butting, the nipple, or wherever the stick/mech went through them.

Usually they go at the bend for a couple of reasons. Firstly, its the weakest point, or at least the most stressed. But the main thing is either a loose built wheel, or poorly fitting spokes in the hub. A spoke is usually 2.0mm at the bend and the hole 2.3mm. To all intents and purpose a new spoke on a new hub should have no play (felt by hand) in the spoke hole with the spoke held in the laced position. If there’s play, or the wheel is loosely built every time the spoke is vertical at the bottom of the wheel, the tension is removed from it as the rim is not supported at the 3 & 9 o’clock positions by enough spoke tension, and then reapplied as the wheel turns. This process does 2 things, it slowly enlarges the spoke hole and it work hardens the spoke at the elbow. As the spoke hole enlarges, the process accelerates until the spoke breaks. So, this is the reason why we need the correct tension in our spokes and also the reason spoke washers were in invented. Washers deform into the spoke hole and take up the play, basically.

Go for J-bend every time. I’m 210lb and ride a rigid 29er. I ran a custom build Hope/Sapim/Mavic wheelset last year with no problems. The builder is the most important part of the wheelbuild.

In what way?

In that they’re a different weight. 5.9g for a 264mm straight-pull, 4.4g for a 264mm Revolution. Like I wrote, there’s a considerable weight difference.

It’s funny how people just confuse everything. The rev is a very very tricky spoke to use and I would certainly not reconmmed it for 15+ stone people or 29ers, let alone a wheel for both.

What am I confusing…?

Also, I’m not 15 stone, though I take it that was actually with reference to the OP. But no, I was making a comment, albeit slightly flippant, with regard to reasons to buy Js instead of SP. Is that okay…

In that they’re a different weight. 5.9g for a 264mm straight-pull, 4.4g for a 264mm Revolution. Like I wrote, there’s a considerable weight difference.

You really don’t get it do you. Weihgt isn’t everything. A road bike weight less than an enduro bike, for a reason. If you want light go for AEL, they are the best spoke. Lighter than Rev, stiffer than comp, and probably going to be SP next year.

You’re getting a tad offensive now, Juan. I’m tempted to tell to eff-off but I’ll play for a few more minutes.

For me and my riding, Revs seem like a good bet. It’s not something I’ve just pulled out of thin air, I’ve spoken with a local wheelbuilder who understnads my needs and appreciates my riding style.

What is it you think you can tell me that he can’t given you know nothing of what I require in a wheel…?

What is it you think you can tell me that he can’t given you know nothing of what I require in a wheel…?

Well the idea that just sheding weight by using revs to start with. Lighter wheel are good, lighter stronger and more rigid are indeed better.

Are you confusing straight pull spokes with radially laced spokes?

Yes I am,….. 😐

DrP

Straight pull spokes offer very little in the way of strength increase over conventional..

All decent quality spokes like DT and Sapim are formed by forging – that is the ends are heated and beaten into shape. It’s not just a case of the end being up-set then bent over.

Because the spoke is heated it allows the crystalline structure of the steel to re-grow in its strongest form around the j-bend as it cools.

Straight-pull spokes will be marginally lighter because they are slightly shorter for a given wheel/hub combo, but that’s all.

I have SP spokes, on eastons, I broke a spoke the week before going to canada, and couldnt get hold of one before I left, ended up buying a spare wheel 🙁

no issues with them, a rock took out my spoke, and I just now have a dozen spares…

So if you go for SP, get some spares at the same time before you need them

I’ve just ordered the wheels with std j bend spokes. Cheers for all the info chaps.

Well the idea that just sheding weight by using revs to start with. Lighter wheel are good, lighter stronger and more rigid are indeed better.

This post simple demonstrates that you’re not reading my posts properly. I’m not opting for Revs simply because they weigh less than, say, DT’s SP. If it was a matter of simple weight-saving then surely I’d be better off with the Aerolites.

It’s clear you’re not impressed with Revs and would substitute them for an alternative, but unless you know my weight, riding style, preference of feel, the terrain on which I’ll be using the wheels and the actual bike they’re going on, your posts where you address comments made by me are simply coming across as presumptuous toss, to be frank. It’s not that I’m not interested in your obviously educated opinion on wheels per se, it’s that I’m put-off by the condescending manner in which you serve it up.

My apologies for the thread disruption, folks.

t’s clear you’re not impressed with Revs

As a matter of fact I am and I even built myself a air of wheels with these.
But I knew very well what to exect in terms of feel, yeld and comfort.

But I knew very well what to expect in terms of feel, yeld and comfort.

And your error is assuming I don’t.

BTW, John Ellison – thanks for the clarification regarding the OP.