wow they are great.
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HMS Ambush
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Posted 1 year ago #
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There are strict guidlines that the RN have to follow when using the Active Sonar when there are large mammals nearby. From memory its the really low frequency sound waves that the oil exploration companies use to map the ocean floor that causes the most distress to mammals.
Posted 1 year ago # -
JCL - as much as I empathise with the "spare a thought for marine life" comment, I can't believe you'd wish for it to kill "all the idiots onboard". Surely human life is of more value than that?
There are massive restrictions on where we operate active sonar now, plus consider that a submarine doesn't really want to use active sonar, after all, it emits a noise that can be detected and tracked by other ships/subs operating a passive system.
Posted 1 year ago # -
JCL - totally unjustified and immature comment, obviously you have no idea about how a modern sub works with sonar, go and do your research before making daft comments like that.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The irony is thousands of 'idiots onboard' have died so JCL can sit at his computer unmolested and spout sh1te
Posted 1 year ago # -
HMS Ambush will be completed. Boat 5 (Agememnon) long lead time items are being worked in the supply chain. Smart money is on Boat 7 being cancelled though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
JCL - totally unjustified and immature comment, obviously you have no idea about how a modern sub works with sonar, go and do your research before making daft comments like that.
"Military-sponsored tests now suggest that low levels of sonar, which do not cause direct damage to whales, could still cause harm by triggering behavioural changes."
"The UK military report details observations of whale activity during Operation Anglo-Saxon 06, a submarine war-games exercise in 2006. Produced for the UK’s Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, it states the results are “potentially very significant”.
The study used an array of hydrophones to listen for whale sounds during the war games. Across the course of the exercise, the number of whale recordings dropped from over 200 to less than 50. “Beaked whale species ... appear to cease vocalising and foraging for food in the area around active sonar transmissions,” concludes the report.
It notes, “Since these animals feed at depth, this could have the effect of preventing a beaked whale from feeding over the course of the trial and could lead to second or third order effects on the animal and population as a whole.”
My comment stands. A huge waste of money and resources and that's without even going into the ethics of the navigation system. The morons who man these things deserve everything they get. 80 million more of us are added to the global human population annually and you lot are actually arguing for a bunch of idiots in a giant nuclear powered/armed metal tube. Now that is ironic...
Oh well at least we'll all be able to sleep at night knowing that an extra 1000 square miles of Iranian desert would be incinerated in a potential future nuclear conflict thanks to the sub and the 'brave lads' onboard.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Epicyclo the pop gun is for stopping and searching, the business arsenal is in the square section behind it. Lots of missiles that the radar in the globe uses to attack multiple targets all over the show. Windows for warships crashed when it was on sea trials according to the documentary that the BBC showed recently.
Posted 1 year ago # -
JCL - stop being a c@ck and get yourself better informed...
Whilst you might be well informed about impacts on marine mammals, you allow your specialist knowledge in this area to justify ignorance elsewhere.
As pointed out by coffeeking, pretty much all human activities impact on the natural world, it's resources and biodiversity.
Do you drive??
If so you are directly complicit in the current GoM oil spill and the geo-political tensions in the ME. You have a stake in the US (+ UK and others) military actions in Iraq to protect furture hydrocarbon resources and supply chain.If you don't drive, fly or use other hydrocarbon fuelled transport then you still have a stake in our collective impact on the planet - perhaps, as you are on this forum, you ride a bike??
Aluminium frame? I've been directly involved in the environemntal assessment of aluminium processing sites - pretty unpleasant. Bauxite mining is opencast, with huge areas of despoilation. Aluminium smelting is highly energy intensive, and typically uses mercury electrodes. Mercury and fluorine contamination often result.
Ohh, and the Astute class submarines are "hunter killers" - not ballistic missile submarines. So whilst they will undoubtedly have a nuclear capability (via sub launched cruise), they are not lurking around in the ocean waiting to trigger nuclear armageddon.
BUT, their use to track and keep tabs on Soviet missile boats during the cold war would have been one of a number of succesful strategies that maintained peace during a prolonged period of tension between nuclear armed super powers.
I am environmentalist myself, but lets have some context??? Spouting off about killing British submariners is hardly likely to advance the protection of biodiversity and the planet's resources is it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
After studying environmental science (studies) at a level i can whole heartedly agree rkk01.
I plan to be joining the navy and if i were to be around anybody saying what you have had jlc they would be in a wheel chair. Yes the armed forces go to war and often have to 'kill' people. Its part of the job description and it is done on the word of royalty, politicians and the high state officers.
I for one would fear a sailing upon a submarine because of the potential risks involved during combat. You have the nerve to wish they would die. Lets whack you in a submarine with a crew whom you know to the very limits and then place you in a combat situation.
Chances are you'd be the first one to bottle, heck I know i could break under those circumstances i have only taken part in land exercises with the cadets and small camps with the armed forces.
If you feel you should die I dare you to walk up to any person of the armed forces even those at headly court and say it to their faces! I for one know you would get the sh*te kicked out of you repeatedly and locked away for
in sighting hatred!and it also used to be treason for wishing any of her majesty's armed forces death. on a side note causing any harm to personal in armed forces uniform is a high rated offense!
Posted 1 year ago # -
"Why does everyone, including the dumbed down media, insist on calling all surface warships "battleships"?????"
Who ever played lightcruisers as a kid ? Anyone?, no we played battleships!!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I plan to be joining the navy and if i were to be around anybody saying what you have had jlc they would be in a wheel chair.
Hopefully you'll get in, that way at least you'll be segregated from civilised society for long periods.
Posted 1 year ago # -
so if some one told you he wished you and your colleagues died under tragic circumstances you would do nothing?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I would laugh at such an idiotic comment, rather than cripple them.
Posted 1 year ago # -
2 different mind sets and i hold the up most respect for armed forces personal, i may have been rash saying i'd put him in a wheel chair but i would clearly make it know how i feel!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I am glad not all submarines of the Royal Navy end up at the bottom of the ocean otherwise 2 generations of my family would not be here as my grandad served on subs in the 1920s as an asdic/wireless operator
Posted 1 year ago # -
you lot are actually arguing for a bunch of idiots in a giant nuclear powered/armed metal tube. Now that is ironic...
Oh well at least we'll all be able to sleep at night knowing that an extra 1000 square miles of Iranian desert would be incinerated in a potential future nuclear conflict thanks to the sub and the 'brave lads' onboard.
The astute class is not nuclear armed. You also go on to say that it is a waste of money and resources. Surely that depends on the job that the sub fulfils and since you can't correctly identify its weapons systems, I suspect that you don't understand how it will be employed either.
Whether you agree with its purchase or not and whether you agree with the role of the forces or not, I think that wishing the mass death of everyone onboard is hardly a proportionate response.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Clearly, there are people on here who know far more about the subject than I, but my view is that despite claims of being the ‘senior service’ the Royal Navy in recent years has been by far the least-distinguished of the three. In the past decade alone there has been controversy after controversy.
Last year, a RN sub managed to hit a French one in the middle of the Atlantic. A pretty big patch of water. Yet another crashed into an underwater mountain in the Red sea because someone used the wrong chart. A destroyer almost sank after running aground near Australia because yet again, someone couldn’t read a chart.
The two (probably soon to become one) aircraft carriers won’t be nuclear powered or possess steam catapults (a British invention ffs). Why not? Wouldn’t it be good not to have to rely on coming into port to fill up the tank every time it’s running low? I seem to remember harbours are not always the safest of places for big boats.
That Type 45 destroyer pictured a few pages back behind the new sub apparently can’t take corners too well and could very possibly topple over due to the top-heavy design where all the fancy radar is housed. Someone who was in a position to know, but probably not to say, told me that sea trials had shown up a number of minor issues in either the submarine or the destroyer (I can’t remember which) like water-tight doors wouldn’t close properly and it listed in the water. Pretty trifling niggles I guess.
Why join the navy? You sit in a metal box for 6 months at a time, pressing buttons. On the few occasions that you do come into contact with unfriendly forces, either passively observe as British citizens get taken hostage by pirates 100 yards away or make sure you’re smiling for the cameras as you work on your table tennis backhand in Iran.
I don’t begrudge them having expensive pieces of equipment. The men and women serving in our armed forces deserve the best that the nation can afford. What I do question is the ability and competence of the people running it. At the moment, it’s an embarrassment.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Clearly, there are people on here who know far more about the subject than I
Having read what you have just said, you'd be right.
Posted 1 year ago # -
BBC2 sunday night 21.00 hrs a programe about the giant spam can that is that submarine.
Posted 1 year ago # -
So because the navy has made some mistake you feel they should no longer be the senior service?
I would also like to remind individuals that they royal marines and special boat squadron fall under the senior service.Does every one easily forget about what the 4 royal marines did when they strapped themselves to the outside of an Apache ah6h longbow to search for a lost colleague?
and the raf and army have both made some huge blunders! but they are performing incredibly well under the circumstances!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Time to finish your homework then off to bed 4XJ. Night night.
Posted 1 year ago # -
pardon?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Last year, a RN sub managed to hit a French one in the middle of the Atlantic. A pretty big patch of water
Hmmm, apportioning blame. Who's to say they didn't hit us. Secondly the ocean isn't that big when you consider all subs like to hide in the same geographically suitable areas
The two (probably soon to become one) aircraft carriers won’t be nuclear powered or possess steam catapults (a British invention ffs).
Why would you install a steam system on an otherwise al electric system. Perhaps we're waiting for advances in electric catapults?
That Type 45 destroyer pictured a few pages back behind the new sub apparently can’t take corners too well and could very possibly topple over due to the top-heavy design where all the fancy radar is housed.
I work on one and have sea trialled the most recent one. They turn just fine thanks. Less likely to topple over than most ships, the relationship between centre of gravity and centre of buoyancy is better than previously. The radar doesn't weigh that much and the reason the width (beam) of the T45 is so large is to accommodate the weight at the top of the mast.
Yes we hit a rock near Auz and yes the hostage thing in Iran was an embarrassment but we're not all like that. I bet your individuals in your company have made mistakes too, should we assume you all behave like that?
Why join the navy? You sit in a metal box for 6 months at a time, pressing buttons.
Wow, just wow. Completely inaccurate generalisation in every respect.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The two (probably soon to become one) aircraft carriers won’t be nuclear powered or possess steam catapults (a British invention ffs).
The aircraft that will supposedly fly from the carriers will be flown by the RAF whose requirement is to have these aircraft perform the same role as the Harriers were originally intended, thats why the version we may be buying is STOVL. A bit pointless these days if you ask me.
The carriers have space on board for cat and trap and there's space for an extra gas turbine to power it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks Mintman, that was a comprehensive rebuttal! Interesting to hear the extra detail about the destroyer and the carriers.
Perhaps poor taste to question the professionalism of our sailors on Armed Forces day so apologies for any offence caused through my ignorance.
My view might also be tainted by the fact I find submarines pretty scary. Something about the sinister appearance and lack of windows. Brave men and women who serve on them - I couldn't do it.
Off to eat humble pie on my road bike for a couple of hours
Posted 1 year ago # -
Glad u found the post interesting. I really don't mind views that differ from mine but like to present my point of view, that's the nice thing about a forum I guess. If we agree to disagree then that's fine by me too. Glad i could add some clarity about T45 though, it's the one thing inreally know about!
If armed forces day encourages people to talk about the value of our forces these days (in a positive or negative light) then I think that's good too.
Submarines aren't my cup either and I'm damn glad I don't work on one! I like windows and daylight too much!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just so you know there is a 3 part documentory on the making of the astute
Posted 1 year ago # -
Program on BBC 2 Scotland right now!
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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