I can also detect that the lecturer is spouting fundamental untruths as my degree gave me a better base knowledge of the law (he has not done a degree). What concerns me is this disinformation is being disseminated to 20 odd other people who do not question whether he is right or wrong and apply this disinformation in their own workplaces, its self perpetuating. Hence (in my particular example) you get jobsworths 'banning' conkers in schools etc etc etc

Jackson Pollock – Its strange you should say this as I did a NEBOSH course as part of my resettlement training when I left the RAF and we on the course all experienced this same issue with the instructor. All of us on the course had performed in various H&S roles during our careers and had a fairly good practical understanding of the law relevant to our roles, yet the instructor constantly made errors which we easily picked up and corrected him on, such as confusion (on his part) with criminal law, torts etc.

I don't suppose for one minute the teaching of H&S attracts the best quality of teaching staff but some of the basics H&S teaching staff have problems with seem quite ridiculous and as you say, they are considered the 'authority' on such issues.

The only hope is that other H&S qualifications have as rigious examination/marking processes as the NEBOSH course and such wrong information can be caught that way, but its not much of a comfort to those who may have paid a great deal to sit the exam.

I think blaming architects for the finance led property bubble seems a tad harsh. Anyway I think you'll find that clients have a substantial input into the "appearance" of buildings. The myth of the crazy architect creating things is just that really, much of my day is taken up with excel spreadsheets now and talking about contractual liability and attempting to educate recently graduated staff about how what they do has actual, real (what a concept) effects on other things. Oh, and the rest of the time is talking to Civils engineers who think that we draw pretty pictures when they do all the real work 😕

Bimbler – Blimey we come across as a bunch of miserable old basterds

I am "a miserable old basterd" so that would seem logical.

Bimbler – Everyone seems to be in some kind of a state of shock that a 21 (TWENTY ONE) year old has a sheltered and not necessarily realistic view of the world.

But it is their blindingly unswerving certainty that they, and only they, have the right answer/method/opinion on everything, all the time and without any ability to understand that there just may be another way to look at/undertake and complete a task – that is assuming the task in question is sufficiently intellectually rewarding and not something that could be done by any other plebian in the building without a brain the size of a planet.

Now look you've made me rant – breathe, calm, go make camomile tea…

But it is their blindingly unswerving certainty that they, and only they, have the right answer/method/opinion on everything, all the time and without any ability to understand that there just may be another way to look at/undertake and complete a task

Young people in think they know everything SHOCKA.

I feel obliged to level the balance slightly.

I'm young and graduated in 2005 with a non-vocational degree from a 'proper' uni. I'm currently poorly paid for a graduate but am aware that I'm learning my trade and (slowly) working my way up the ladder. I am not a know-it-all but neither am I afraid to ask "have you thought about doing it this way?". My friends are similar and none of us are like the person who wrote the original article.

It seems that Oxbridge produces people who are, and always have, excelled in academia and are used to being good at things first time. They don't produce people well fitted for the world of actual work.

Bimbler – Young people in think they know everything SHOCKA.

No, they don't think they know everything.
They know they know everything!

"It seems that Oxbridge produces people who are, and always have, excelled in academia and are used to being good at things first time. They don't produce people well fitted for the world of actual work."

A sweeping generalisation, don't you think? I don't think that excelling academically precludes you from suitability to the world of work…

They don't produce people well fitted for the world of actual work.

Er, on the basis of your previous statements about not being a know-it-all youngster, you have just undone yourself, old boy.

How is the petard anyway?

"I am wisest because I know I know nothing. Also, I can smell bullsh1t"

Half of that is Socrates, half of it is me. I'll leave you to work out which is which.

I agree my quote was indeed a sweeping generalisation and that a fair few Oxbridge graduates function normally and many even excel. There seems to be a larger proportion than from other establishments who believe the world owes them a living though.

There seems to be a larger proportion than from other establishments who believe the world owes them a living though

Is this based on any discernible sense of fact, or just a hopeless peddling of an opinion limited only by your unwillingness to acknowledge you're digging the hole faster and deeper?

😀

"There seems to be a larger proportion than from other establishments who believe the world owes them a living though. "

I know lots of Oxbridge graduates, none of whom think the world owes them a living, and all of whom are very successful in the world of work.

So who are you referring to?

sootyandjim – Phew, not just me then! It is a NEBOSH accredited course.

My degree has enabled me to critically analyze the information and question its reliability. Not just accept.

I was told the other day by a Sky 'Engineer' (fitter at best)! That it was illegal for him to go up onto my roof alone to get to the dish! No doubt he had his certificate to 'qualify' him to make these assertions. As a result I now have two satellite dishes attached to my house because he wouldn't go onto the roof to fix the old one!

What it seems is happening to me is the general 'dumbing down' of academia and qualifications. Employers are increasingly disregarding the highly useful skills honed through doing a degree, in favour of a certificate that says somebody can carry out a specific task.

I'm going to wade in here after only reasing tow posts in a true STW stylee.

There are two three sorts of graduate jobs. There are those where your degree is essential to the job. Things like industrial research for pharma companies, or engineering. There is another sort where they really don't care what degree you got as long as it demonstrates skills you have and that your able to learn hard things. FOr example, any of the big four will employ you if you pass their entrance criteria. HAving an accountacy degree doesn't help much as you still need to pass your exams to become chartered. My GF works for a big IT company on a very good wage, studied biochemistry. I know countless numbers of people who do a job not at all related to their degree.

The third type of job is those that didn't require a degree at all.

Having a 1st from cambridge in history and a good broad skill set would get you into a lot of company graduate schemes with a times top 100 employer (GSK, Big 4, BT, Tesco, Accenture, IBM etc. etc.) but, half of these have restricted the intake which is why she swill be struggling.

degress have become devalued as a result of everyone going to university.

universities have become another money making tool. they're not worried how many grads they churn out; only that their intake, and consequencly their bank accounts, remain high.

interesting thing that this guy says regarding education and inparticular about degrees….

20 minutes of your time

Sorry Alpin that's just nonsense. Undergraduate teaching of GB and EU students is a loss-maker for Universities: the tuition fees they're able to charge are nowhere near the full economic cost of the teaching students are provided with. This is why they're all forced to cross-subsidize–by increasingly looking to get non-EU students onto expensive masters level courses. If you want to be cynical, that's where you should be looking.

I haven't read the whole thread, but going by what the OP says, she certainly has my sympathy.

If a kid is told that to do well in life they must work hard at school go to a good university and get a degree, then I can completely understand if after doing all that, they are totally pissed off when they find that they can't get a job.

"She seems to want the "government" to guarantee all(Cambridge?)uni graduates a job rather than be left to market forces"

Yep, me too ……… I totally agree with her. What a **** waste of talent. And if "market forces" can't find a way in which she can make a useful contribution to society based on her talents and skills, then it clearly shows how leaving everything to "market forces" is a really shite idea.

Furthermore, as a taxpayer I resent all that money being invested on her education, only for it to be pissed down the drain because "market forces" can't find anything useful to do with her talents – so she's not the only one who's angry.

BTW Trekster – I assume that your resentment in her expecting to find a job, and your "market forces fetish" is based on you not having a Cambridge degree ?

And oh yeah, there's nothing wrong with studying history – in fact it's a crying shame more people don't know more about history (I got grade 4 CSE history btw) Indeed some people don't even know what happened 20 years ago ffs. And yes, a history background can be useful in many jobs – broadcasting, media, research, publishing, education, etc. Although as others have mentioned, just having a degree is something which clearly needs application and dedication, suggests that she has useful talents.
imho

well said ernie_lynch!

If a kid is told that to do well in life they must work hard at school go to a good university and get a degree, then I can completely understand if after doing all that, they are totally pissed off when they find that they can't get a job.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more 🙂