I have both frames and with the same parts, same bar height, etc. the Hemlock is easier to manual than the Prophet. This is from a stood position, so nowt to do with seat angles. Is it the extra length in the front half of the Prophet? Slightly higher BB of the Hemlock? Is it the fact that the chainstay extends a wee bit on the Prophet due to the pivot location? What? Any proper ideas gratefully received.

the hemlock has a higher BB than a prophet 😯

have you tried driving a car under it?

Out of interest how do the two compare? I'm looking at both to replace a stolen Slayer SXC.

do you mean getting it to the balance point, or to hold it there?

most bikes are different to manual, but once you have adjusted to the difference it shouldn't be that much of a big deal.

Could it be that the Prophets chainstays are longer?

GW – I mean the initial hoist.

mikey74 – Prophets are quarter inch shorter, prolly about the same with me on board and sagged.

michaelwright – what?

david jev – I'll e-mail you.

I heard different suspension designs can affect manualling. IIRC single pivot is supposed to be harder?! But I can't manual, dont own a FS and i'm not especially famililar with either bike. Yay.

Rickos has the best riding socks :love: 8)

I'd also be interested in how you'd compare the rides + what you tend to ride on one or t'other?
I'm sure the suspension set up is relevant, but not sure of the physics of how a regressive rate single pivot would make manualling more difficult.

is the prophet longer at the front?

if a bike has a longer front end it will be harder to manual – cos it's further away / leverage and that…

my Hemlock isn't exactly short in the top-tube, but it is a bit 'compact'

(it sounds like it's lot of little things adding up)

Probably cos the prophet is single pivot I reckon.

I found my patriot a **** to manual, quite alot harder than any other dh bike ive tried, infact I think it was the only bike I havent been able to manual properly. I even found my mates brooklyn easier to manual, although I think they are some sort of single pivot which doesnt make much sense.

Mal-ec – I have both frames and just swap all the bits over for a change every now and then. The Prophet can get you into trouble on open flat out style downhill cos you can just let it go and it flies. The Hemlock has a more sort of fun character – boosting off stuff, manualling, etc. – and is probably a wee bit more nimble so better in nadgery stuff. Both are great fun either way.

So, it seems that high forward single pivot bikes are more difficult to initially hoist into a manual than low, somewhere around the BB style pivots. Must be some physics/maths in there somewhere, but I wouldn't have a clue.

I found my patriot a **** to manual, quite alot harder than any other dh bike ive tried, infact I think it was the only bike I havent been able to manual properly. I even found my mates brooklyn easier to manual, although I think they are some sort of single pivot which doesnt make much sense.

I had an orange big-t for a couple of years, that was ridiclously easy to manual, now my mates brooklyn racelink i thought was pretty damn hard to manual, as you say both single pivot.

I'd say chainstay length is the biggest factor in how much effort is req'd to get the bike up into a manual position.

This is from a stood position, so nowt to do with seat angles

Yep, if your sat down then it aint a manual..

😀

Cheers Rickos, thats helpful.
good luck with the manualling