Help me spec an Xtracycle…

This is based on the assumption that I can removed the seized bottom bracket from my donor bike….

I’m going to source the Xtracycle new (I’ve never seen one s/h), so the rest of the build needs to come in cheap (I’ll source what I can s/h). I want to get this built during the summer.

So, please help me out with:

* Brakes – the forks currently have cantis. Presumably Vs front and back would be better. Or a cable disk at the back?

* Gears – the bike is SS’d. It will need gears. Regular gears or a hub (Alfine)? If regular, presumably MTB gearing is best.

* Chainset/BB – (depending on gears decision), currently an old square taper 5 arm set up. Not sure what ramped chainrings are available for this, these days.

* Wheels – front rim is pretty knackered (hub seems OK, though). Rear rim is a Mavic 717 – I assume this isn’t tough enough for load lugging. Rear hub is a (non-disk) Deore.

* Tyres – it’s going to be ridden on the road, but the 1.3″ Conti sport contacts I have might be a little weedy – something 2″, say?

Thoughts?

Cheers

Tom 🙂

Tom, I’m sure BigDummy and others on here who have one will be along in a minute, but I’d say make the most of what you have now to get it working, then upgrade as parts wear out. And start with the big ticket items first…

* Chainset/BB – (depending on gears decision), currently an old square taper 5 arm set up.
You’ll be able to get chainrings for this from somewhere, I’m sure, just search for the right PCD. Try SJS Cycles as a starting point, they seem to have a very wide range available. As a temporary solution, depending on the terrain you will be riding over, could you get by with a 1×9 set up and buy a different chainset later?

* Wheels – front rim is pretty knackered (hub seems OK, though). Rear rim is a Mavic 717 – I assume this isn’t tough enough for load lugging. Rear hub is a (non-disk) Deore.
I suspect the rear wheel will be fine for a while, especially with a 2.0″ tyre on it. The front wheel obviously depends on your assessment of its condition. If you get replacements, it may be worth thinking about whether you want to put disc brakes on at some point, although these are certainly not essential. I’d suggest wide, strong rims, maybe designed for DH riding, to give the greatest tyre volume and capacity.

* Brakes – the forks currently have cantis. Presumably Vs front and back would be better. Or a cable disk at the back?
You don’t need to swap the canti for a v-brake immediately so if they work then stick with them. V-brake at rear as other wise you’ll need a new wheel immediately.

* Gears – the bike is SS’d. It will need gears. Regular gears or a hub (Alfine)? If regular, presumably MTB gearing is best.
Alfine is great but a big up front investment. Given you’re trying to do this on a budget, get a 12-34 cassette on your existing wheel and go from there.

* Tyres – it’s going to be ridden on the road, but the 1.3″ Conti sport contacts I have might be a little weedy – something 2″, say?
Schwalbe Big Apples in 2″ or bigger. Maybe consider fitting mudguards as well? SKS Chromoplastics are excellent and only £26 or so. P60 is probably the model for you.

I’m planning on getting an Xtracycle at some point, hence the suggestions above. As I said, others who have one will be along shortly to pass on their actual experience!

The Surly thoughts on the matter are difficult to better I think.

A few of mine:

Wheels and tyres – there are people running quite narrow tyres. Personally I reckon Adam is right, 2″ or bigger. Schwalbe Marathons on mine, if I had time and inclination I’d chase a pair white Schwalbe Fat Franks. I think my front wheel is a Mavic 317. It’s fine, although it wants upgrading.

Brakes – discs would be nice, but don’t fret too much. For what it’s worth, the cable run to the back is very long indeed. I don’t know whether a cable disc would just get too gungy to be worth the effort. I have a Middleburn Oiler in the cable to my rear V-brake. I think I’d certainly go for V rather than canti on the front, and you can’t run a canti to the rear.

Chainset – when I first built I ran with a single chainring (36 or 34 I think) with an mtb block. My experience has been that you don’t need big gears, but it’s very nice to have some small ones. If for some reason you’tre running a single ring (I had to because I didn’t have a mech stop) it real,ly, really needs a tensioner because with such a long chain really bad things can happen if the chain falls off.

Other things:

– I think it’s well worth having a passenger bar for Mrs North. A tandem stoker stem would be nice, but I’ve just got a regular stem fixed to the seatpost. I started with a cut-down stub bar, but have gone to a full, swept back citybike bar, which Mrsdummy reports is a big improvement.

– Fenders – agree with Adam, more of a necessity than a luxury. I found otherwise spray from the back wheel found its way onto the snapdeck, which puts women off sitting on there rather!

– position – you’re probably going to want to sit pretty upright. There are Xtracycles around with quite racy positions, but I’ve always wanted to be very sit up and beg.

– pedals – I’ve gone from regular flats, to Rivendell grip kings to (currently) rubber covered hybrid pedals simply because I was wanting to dig the bike out without thinking about what Im was wearing, and the spikes on normal flats hurt leather soles.

– reflectives and lights – it’s a big thing, and that makes me a little paranoid. I’ve used quite a bit of reflective tape, pedal reflectors etc etc to try and get so much light bouncing off it that no-one has any excuse to clip me in the dark. I also reckon more rather than fewer lights is the way to go. I am currently woking on a dynamo set, piccies on Flickr. tomorrow hopefully.

– chainguard – I like mine, it saves trouser!

– collect extra bits – the more, and the more sorts of straps, bungees, bagfs for life etc you can accumulate the easier fixing any given load is going to be.

Have fun!

😀

You have presumably come across John Garrish’s wonderful Xtracyle Gallery. It’s quite reassuring to look through, as a lot of the bikes in there are built off undistinguished donor frames with parts bin bits. This one, for example, could charitably be described as “ghastly”:

Point is it’s out there, it’s working (so far as we know!!) and it’s probably doing all the things we want an Xtracycleto be doing, just with minimal expenditure.

🙂

Mind if I do pictures?! 😀

Flickr
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/3124265775_e7e9573cdc.jpg?v=0[/img]
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2901620726_9bfa0fb112.jpg?v=0[/img]

Chaps, you are indeed both gentlemen of the highest calibre. Thank you most kindly.

From all of the above (and that doesn’t include the link through to Surly, which I haven’t even tried yet), some questions and observations:

* Mudguards – should have mentioned: I fully intend to fit some. When the boke ran as a commuter, it has some full length ‘guards on, and these will (subject to suitability – I, er, modified the stays) be reprised for this task. I’m a big fan of minimising spray. Ask any woman I know.

* Gearing – Adam, I think you’re right on the Alfine front. That may need to become a nice-to-have in the future. Right now, I have a couple of unramped chainrings (one big – 48; one small – 33). My concern is, as BD identifies, not so much the top end, rather the lower end. If I can identify a source of suitable, ramped chainrins to fit the cranks, then these will be perfect. I’ll use the old mech and friction thumbshifter for the front end. If I do go 1×9, then what sort of tnesioner would be best?

* Pedals – good point, Jon. I have some DMRs somewhere, and these would be OK for most stuff for the get-go. What’s the though on straps? More or less useful?

* Reflective stuff and lighting (I guess this comes on to wheels, too) – I like the big sign on your BD, Jon. I’m also a bit paranoid on this front – I commute in what clubmates refer to as my hi-viz parachute (a builder’s hi-viz/reflective waistcoat that I found in the road on the way home from work – I like its statement “Work Safe – Home Safe”. What’s the provision for attaching lights to the back of the Freeradical? What about a dynamo up front? Anything sensibly priced out there?

* Chainguard – in spite of your tribulations, Jon, an ace idea.

* Brakes – noted. Vs it is front and back.

* Wheels – if the existing rear will be strong enough initially, I’ll go with that and possibly get a new rim laced on at some point. In terms of the front wheel, I might as well get it right from the off – what make rim would be a good start? Also, see above my dynamo question, if that makes any difference.

* Position – this is, perhaps, less easy. The bike is an old (and loved – seized BB excepted) Kona, with P2 forks. While it has a quill stem, there isn’t much room for raising it. Current bars are some risers which were a PITA to get in (it’s an old steel stem, so no removable faceplate), so I’m disnclined to remove them. Sit up and beg noted, though. I don’t plan on speeding on this thing!

Cheers!

Tom

Oh, and:

* Passenger seating – fully plan on having some bars on there for Dr North. That way I can pick her up from work, and, er, ride her back home. Jon, do you have anything soft for Mrs R to sit on or does she make do with the snapdeck?

* Length – how much longer than a standard MTB? I need to work out if I’ll get it in and out of the cellar….

*Dynamo/lights – I have just fixed a bottle dynamo and light to the brake boss at the front, using a kit from SJS Cycles which went on beautifully. I ideally want a dyno hub set-up, but it’s the difference betwee hundreds and fives of pounds! I’ll put pictures on flickr tomorrow. If I had unlimited budget a Schmidt disc dyno-hub laced to an Atomlab rim or something would be brilliant.

Basic cat-eye clips will go fine onto the back of the free-rad. The slight problem with this is that they get walloped on the ground if you’re picking the bike up to manouevre is in tight spaces. Obviously you can put tail lights on the passenger bar when Dr North isn’t sat on the back.

I drilled my snapdeck and put a bracket on the underside to hold a light. Thus:

You can also see a cat-eye bracket on the frame. I think knogs would actually work really, really well.

This set-up, on the legendary Goat, ticks many boxes:

Generally, El Cargonista appears to have done all the coolest things you can do with one of these bikes. All of his modifications are excellent.

*Seating for Dr North – Mrs Dummy sits on the snapdeck, but she’d certainly like a Magic Carpet when they get to the UK. Footsies are a real help, do try to budget for some. I suspect Dr North may be an easier passenger than Mrs Dummy, but having something to put her feet on makes for a much more relaxing ride.

*Length – it’s quite long, heavy and awkward to lift. It’s going to be a pain. Say goodbye to the paint on your stairwell walls.

🙂

I used this cheap (if rather noisy) Kore device jkust to prevent the chain tangling under the back wheel when it got thrown. Not a bad solution, but a mech is waaaaay better.

It might be worth looking at http://www.practicalcycles.com/ and their Big Dummy build to give you ideas. They’re great at email communication – they’ve also got lots of photos on their flickr stream and aren’t a million miles from you, I think.

I’ve just fired off my finalised list of what I want for my Yuba Mundo 😀

Jon – thanks for the updates.

* Passengers – I doubt Dr North will be a good passanger. She isn’t very good at not being in charge, so I suspect that orders and the occasional thump in the back will be issued from the pillion position…. Anyway, I’ll look out for the Magic Carpet at the appropriate time. And I’ll bear in mind the Footsies from the get-go.

* Chainguide – I’ll use a mech as a chainguide. I have the old 7spd front mech spare, so will set that up if starting out on a single chainring.

* Front lights – Seems like a hub dynamo might be a future option. I’ll have a look at your pics when they’re up, but I suspect that might be a better starting point than going the whole hog on something expensive and German. It will be ridden undre streetlights mostly, so being seen, rather than needing to see, is the priority. I can always stick a flashing cateye on the front, too.

* Rear lights – I like your solution with the drilled mount. Cateye LD1100s are (relatively) expensive, and I don’t want to go around smashing them (the last one ended up in pieces after I chucked myself under a stationary car in Ghent last November…). Are those NiteRider Cherry Bombs on the back of the Goat?

* Length – we live in a Victorian terraced house. It will either have to enter and exit via the front door (as is the usual route for bikes), being careful of the newly painted walls (the god children have already had a go at them *sigh*), or the door in the back of the kitchen or dining room. Neither are ideal, but a better route to the cellar door. I’m not bothered about the cellar wall paintwork, more the awkward angle and steepness of the stone steps. I’d be disinclined to leave it out in the back yard because of (a) theft and (b) Manchester’s climate….

I’ve just fired off my finalised list of what I want for my Yuba Mundo

Cool. Going to cyclescheme it if you can?

I have to decide whether to buy the Freeradical outright, or put it on the cyclescheme with a cross bike….

I’ll go back and have a look at the Practical Cycles site – I’m trying not to spend too much time on there for fear of spending money!

They always struck me as dodgey.
ive no experience of them, and my opinions are based purely on internet research (loooking at pictures)

but do they not stress the donor frames rather highly?
i think i much prefer the look of the long bike that was put up the other day (not the Ute, the other one, Yuba?)
i reckon i could design a great one, but have nothing more than a pencil and paper to play with….

ive got lots of good ideas i think, but not inclination to make them work properly…. yet

Olly – I believe the stresses aren’t too bad. The ideal for me would be a Big Dummy, but at £850 for the frame, that will need to wait a while.

A carefully designed and constructed cargo bike would be great. Go for it! I’m a big fan of Mike Burrows’ 8Freight:

Olly, I think the Xtracycle can’t be too bad. There are a few picture of breakages floating about, mangled chainstay bridges etc, but not a whole lot. I suspect the rate of failure is not particularly high.

Of course it’s not where you’d start if you were designing a cargo bike from the ground up, but for what it is it’s a wonderful invention. “Dodgey” isn’t quite fair, but absolutely agreed it could be improved on!

Check out the Rans Hammer Truck for a terrifyingly serious effort. 500lbs of cargo(!):

Check out the Rans Hammer Truck for a terrifyingly serious effort. 500lbs of cargo(!)

Even with its front wheel in the air, that is one slack seat angle.

And 500lb – are there wheels that can take that sort of weight?

Tom,

I guess I’ve focused my comments on making the most of what you’ve got now and minimising the initial outlay, rather than what you might aim to migrate to. Hope that’s what you were after.

I’m sure SJS Cycles will have chainrings for you. If not, I’d stick the 33 on with a 12-34 block and a medium cage rear mech. With the single ring you’d probably be best to put a bash guard on the outside and an N-Gear Jump Stop on the seat post: http://www.billys.co.uk/english/productresults.php?brand=N-GEAR

It’s doubtful, but if you still have problems you could install a Kore chain reactor part way between the chianring and rear mech: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17621

If you get any lights designed for attaching to a seatpost (so any Cateye lights, etc) then you can attach them to the V-racks, giving you plenty of space to fit lights. A few peeple have also screwed light brackets to the underside of the snap deck.

Dynamo hubs can be expensive for a decent one (easily £100) and it’s not something I know a lot about. Maybe give Bike Fix a call? They do a lot with dynamos.

As far as rims, the bike is not something that will be ridden anywhere very fast so rim weight won’t matter so much. I’d get a wide rim to suit wide tyres that suits your budget and has a braking surface. Oh, and 36 hole would be better than 32. How about these for £20?: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7403

If you need a taller quill stem, then try the Nitto Technomic Deluxe from HubJub. It’s 195mm long and may get you a decent increase in height for not too much cash (£35). It also has a 26.0mm road clamp (although HubJub sell shims to fit a 25.4mm MTB bar in there) so that opens up options for any number of weird bar shapes as you see fit. I like the rear bar Jon (BigDummy) has fitted for the passenger…

Jon will have to comment on passenger seating and length.

I have a Nitto Technomics quill on my trainer, lovely thing. My passenger bar came from Freshtripe, but a Nitto or Soma cruising bar would be nice, both for the driver and the passenger. 🙂

Adam – nice one. Thanks. Some really useful ideas and suggestions there to go with those from Jon.

It’s all (a lot of) food for thought.

Now for the first job: releasing the BB from the donor frame….

Cheers all! 😀

I really want to build one of these but won’t be doing so until we have emigrated to Australia. My big worry is I won’t have such ready access to weird and wonderful bike parts and it’ll all cost a lot more money… maybe I should start stocking up now? 😉

I’m a big fan of Mike Burrows’ 8Freight:

I was talking to a courier from York last summer who said their freight bikes (which looks just like that, so I assume they’re the same) are always having to be welded, but the Mundos they have just keep going.

I’d agree with the mudguard and chainguard ideas. I fitted them to my mrs’ tringlespeed commuter and has made cycling to meetings etc in normal-ish clothes possible. Very hard to find good chainguards in the UK – I ended up buying one from Germany that worked with a triple chainset & front mech (with a bit of heat gun adjustment).

http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=3&detail2=199

Another option for higher handlebars is to use BMX cruiser race bars (low rise and lightweight compared to regular BMX bars). You might need to find a 1″ shim to fit a regular MTB stem.

http://www.alansbmx.com/index.php?cPath=38_126&osCsid=026e3404492173c68167d89e0e69e774

This is how we’re looking at March 2009.

– Big Dummy frame, 18inch; in the original olive green.
– freeloaders with added reflective taping
– original snapdeck
– footsies permanently fixed to the frame (see closeups elsewhere in the set)
– Kickback stand from Xtracycle, a huge improvement to the single leg stand, but pretty pircey this.
– Nitto canti-fit front rack
– basta bottle dynamo and lamp, fixed to the canti boss
– SKS chainguard and full mudguards
– On-One Mary bars and stem
– lamp bar from SJS Cycles, Bridgwater, UK, holding additional lamp brackets and bell to keep all the hand positions of the Mary clear
– Specialized Body Geometry grips
– rubber commuting pedals to avoid damaging the soles of smart shoes
– schwalbe Marathon 2" puncture protection tyres with reflective sidewalls
– Avid juicy 3 front brake with 185mm rotor on the front, shimano V-brake on the back at present
– basic mtb gearing, 18-speed because the chainboard fouls the big ring, xt mechs, Dura-ace/Pauls thumbshifters, cheap shimano crankset
– Brooks saddle from an old Brompton
– passenger bar an old french citybike bar from Freshtripe on ebay
– Ahearne flask cage and 2 more bottle cages present and correct
– Kryptonite lock secured to the seatstays with a bungee for quick parking
– wheels are rather basic. Something considerably wider-rimmed, more spokes, dynamo front hub and geared rear are on the wishlist.

Bottle Dynamo and lamp, both basta. Fixed to the brake boss using one of these, from SJS.

Nitto front rack. Lovely thing.

🙂

Comments about the state of the garden, incidentally, will wash off me like water off a duck’s back. 😉

Looking good, Jon.

The dynamo lights on my borrowed girly bike (she’s called Fern) are great, though the front light going out when I stop is a bit scary. I love just getting the bike out of the garage, chucking my bag in the basket on the back and riding. No messing about checking I’ve remembered lights, helmets, lock, etc. or getting a sweaty back. Or, tucking my trousers into my sock, I’ve just realised how much having to do that bugged me! All I need to remember is the key for my bike lock, and that’s on the same key ring as the garage door key.

Your garden is considerably tidier than mine. Two kids and three chickens does not a tidy garden make.

Thanks. I absolutely agree about the just being able to go. It turns the bike into something that you just use, rather than an activity in its own right. Of course, taking a sports bike out to have a blat around or to train still is an activity, but doing the errands with the bike is just part of the way life works.

Have you noticed by the way, we’ve got two hefty cargo-bike threads trundling along on the front page. This is starting to feel like a proper STW niche. 😉

I do like a good niche

We’ll know we’ve really arrived when we get a thread asking “WTF is so great about cargo bikes? Don’t these luddites realise that the Porsche Cayenne has been invented?” Then we’ll have to develop more obscure forms of cargo bike, possibly made of bamboo, or hemp. I wonder if hand-wven mung-bean saddlebags would be a runner? 🙂

Can you weave a dynamo hub out of yoghurt?

Then we’ll have to develop more obscure forms of cargo bike, possibly made of bamboo, or hemp.

I think you’re too late, Jon, you should have paid more attention to the NAHBS:

I arrive back after a day out of the office to find you have already out niched yourselves, chaps. Way to go.

Jon – like the dynamo and the BD updates. I casually mentioned (as Mrs North was giving me a lift to work in the car 😳 ) that i planned to build an Xtracycle so we could use it for practical stuff. Without pausing breath about how much she liked her car, she agreed that some more practicality would be a good thing. She’s a beautiful contradiction, but that means I have the OK!

Comments about the state of the garden, incidentally, will wash off me like water off a duck’s back.

You’re lucky enough to have a garden. Why, up in this part of t’North, we’re grateful if we get to see a garden, let alone go in one. When I worked down t’pit…

Can you weave a dynamo hub out of yoghurt?

I’ll have you know, young man, that the People’s Communist Party of Chorlton-cum-Hardy can do anything!

Another option for higher handlebars is to use BMX cruiser race bars (low rise and lightweight compared to regular BMX bars).

Good suggestion, but these would be impossible to fit to the current stem (as there is no removeable front plate).

Right-ho, I shall do some work and then start writing my shopping list….

Tom, if youre existing stem is too short anyway, what about a quill to Ahead adapter and then a new stem? That’d free you up to fit any bar you liked.

Good plan, stan (Adam). Like your thinking.

I do what I can. 8)