Hi Just wondered if there is anyone to give me some advice in choosing a tandem. Im starting at the lower end of the budget & need a child back or something with a lower stoker position for daughter with downs syndrome. I have a choice of two. Thorn Voyager Child back or Dawes Duet. Anyone?

We have a Dawes and they are good.
Ours was second hand, turned into an mtb tandem, but is now a hybrid.

I heard Argos sell a decent budget model. Not seen it yet in the flesh.

Very suspicious username…

Thanks Bunnyhop.

Anyone any thoughts on the Thorn Voyager? Even looking at the spec doesn’t help me (complete novice)

Why is my username suspicious thegreatape?

TandemJeremy – often shortened to TJ – was banned for being naughty, then rejoined as tjagain. he’s a keen tandemista

tjemma is quite close to tjagain so i can see why people maybe suspicious

From the two you mention, the Thorn will probably be the better tandem, and will thus be more expensive, but will keep it’s value better. The Dawes however is a perfectly acceptable alternative. Bunnyhop is my wife and as she says we have a dawes tandem that’s been great.

Before investing a hefty sum of money in a tandem, you may want to check out Charlotte’s Tandems, who loan tandems (at no cost) to people with disabilities. If nothing else it will allow you to make sure you are keen to continue

Many thanks nbt.

& thanks for explaining about my user name.

I was hoping to hear something good about the Thorn. The company were really informative when I spoke to them & even told me that I didn’t need to pay the VAT as my daughter is disabled. I didn’t know this. The company selling the Dawes didn’t know bout the VAT exemption. The downside to the Thorn is its bright yellow!

Both Dawes and Thorn do kit that is well thought out after lots of years of practice, so both will in theory be fine. They’ll also be mildly future proof, so long as you don’t have serious off road ambitions. They are both built with what were fairly normal standard components in an earlier era (recently too, so not a hazard), so spares or modest upgrades don’t have to be scary expensive.
Tandems do eat components compared to a normal road bike, so there’s a lot to be said for having one that uses cheap and cheerful parts.

Choosing between those two..? Probably more down to getting the best size mix that works for both of you now and in the near future. Cheaper tandems tend to come in a limited range of sizes, so are built to be quite adaptable, especially for the stoker’s position.

Happy to help with any questions.

Thanks Highlandman very informative

They are both pretty much the same sizing with the Thorn being 12″ stoker to the Dawes 13″

I guess Im just going to have to take the plunge & choose

I’d be cagey about that comment from Thorn about gaining a Vat relief on the supply of a tandem- to qualify for that relief, the goods must be substantially and permanently adapted for the purposes of a qualifying person. Unless the tandem is designed solely for that qualifying person and addresses an issue with their disability, it should be standard rated. Lots of cases have gone to Tribunal on golf mobility buggies- but the only one to ever succeed had been adapted and re-shaped to fit the specific needs of an individual customer.

Having said all of that, Thorn are a good company who know how to build bikes rather well!

Thanks again Highlandman for your input.

Now you have me a little worried. Is it then possible once I have bought the bike the Inland Revenue may come chasing me for the VAT?

This is the standard wording sent by Thorn which came along with a quote excluding VAT

Sorry to be a pain. And sorry the cut & paste lost its formatting.

Please complete the sections marked with*
VAT declaration to be made by an individual seeking relief from tax liability for the
purchase of aids for a person with a disability.
*Name of person:
*Address:
*Contact telephone number:
I declare that I am an eligible person under paragraph 1 of VAT leaflet 701/7/86 and that
I am suffering from *(description of illness or condition e.g. Cerebral Palsy):
and am receiving from Thorn Cycles Ltd. 91-93 St John Street, the following goods
which are being supplied to me for domestic or personal use *(name of goods E.g.
tricycle):
I claim that the supply of these goods or services is eligible for relief from VAT under
group 14 of the zero rate schedules to the VAT Act (1983).
*Signed
*Date
Please return this form to the address at the head of the page.
Please note – section 4 of VAT leaflet 701/7/86
It may not be possible for a handicapped person to sign a declaration (E.g.a child or
mentally handicapped adult). In such cases the signature of a parent, guardian or doctor
is acceptable. Similarly, it is accepted that goods or services are supplied to a
handicapped person when bought by a relative, guardian or trustee acting on a
handicapped person’s behalf.
There are also exemptions for charities supplying goods to a handicapped person
detailed in the same action.
There are severe penalties for making a false declaration. If you are in any doubt about your own
eligibility or the eligibility of the goods you are buying, you should get advice from a local VAT office
before signing this declaration.
Thorn Cycles Ltd
91-93 St John Street
Bridgwater
Somerset
TA6 5HX
Tel. 01278441505
Email: sales@thorncycles.co.uk

where are you based tjemma? You may be close enough to a current tandem user to have a go before buying your own. I’d also recommend asking on the Tandem Club group on Facebook, if you are a facebook user

I’m in Buckinghamshire. From my limited local research not much going on in our area. I have asked to join the Facebook tandem sites just waiting to be accepted.

HMRC will normally only look at the supplier of the goods who has declared that the supply should qualify.
They might, in theory, be challenged by a Vat officer to justify why they zero rated your particular tandem. If the officer is not happy with the explanation and evidence provided, they may choose to assess the company for the vat that should have been on your invoice.
What happens after that is then up to the company.

Basically, you two will correctly qualify for the relief if the tandem is specifically adapted in some way. However, if it’s simply a standard tandem with a different saddle, I’d assume that it should not qualify.
It’s a contentious area of Vat that frequently throws up challenges, both reasonable ones and cases that are a clear abuse of the relief. Like many golf buggies…

I’m assuming the child back is required for a child rather than a small adult? Assuming correct, I’d get a decent s/h tandem as your daughter will/may/should grow out of it fairly quickly and you may need to change assuming you/she gets the bug. Dawes and Thorn make decent enough tandems as do Orbit and a few others. Have a look at the Tandem club website for s/h kit, Thorn also do (or did – I bought one from them) s/h kit.

If you’re not sure of the build etc, I’d be happy to help, email in profile. My wife and I have been tandem touring since the mid 90’s.

Have emailed you Boblo thank you.

Personally I wouldn’t touch thorn with a bargepole. Stuck in the 50s and they point blank refuse to fit discs to the front of a tandem which IMO and that of many others is essential.

JD tandems in ilkley is often seen as the best shop around – I have not bought from them but have chatted with them and with customers of theirs.

I would very much encourage you to try before you buy – you can borrow mine if you are anywhere near edinburgh. Various shops do demo days or let you hire one for a week and if you buy take the hire cost off the purchase price or beg a loan from someone I say this because not all folk get on with tandems and they are expensive – but a good tandem is much nicer to ride than a cheap one

I’d always go for a MTB style one – flat bars, wide tyres and disc brakes

List of shops and people who hire them on the tandem club website
https://www.tandem-club.org.uk/
http://www.tandems.co.uk/

Used Voyager with a small back. We ran a Dawes Twocan for many many years. Designed by Pete Bird, they are rare indeed. Ours has a 12″ rear and is suitable from 4 to about 12 with a change in search post.

They hold their value, but are not cheap.

Ours needed about 200 of accessories including crank shorteners. Currently on loan in Leicestershire to my sister’s family. Don’t worry about disc brakes, ours has managed fine with V’s, even with an added tagalong!

Tjemma – whereabouts in bucks are you, we have a Dawes tandem, prob a bit big for you but you are welcome to try it & have a bit of experience with adapted tandems – Aylesbury area

Join the tandem club facebook page – there is a bike perfect for what yo want on there. I’ll ask them a for an email address if you want

I have a Thorn Voyager which I ride with my daughter and it has been excellent. I bought it second hand and it has been a total bargain. There are often used voyagers on eBay and the forums.

I have had two other tandems – well one was a triplet. I have only ever used rim brakes on my tandems and have had no problems including decending passes in the Alps and Spain as well as riding down very steep hills in Wales.

I would not, therefore, say that disks are essential. Disks are great in the right circumstances but they do have their limits and issues too.

Hi,

There is a great organisation on Facebook which lends tandems specifically to people with disabilities. They are – Charlotte’s Tandems. Well worth a look – they have multiple locations they lend from and seem supportive too.

Jay

Thank you all for your comments and advice and the offers of loans. All greatly appreciated.

I have gone ahead and purchased the Thorn Voyager (company did sell it to me VAT free). It had just arrived when I read the comment from tjagain!!

Relieved to see comments further down.

Downside was that they implied all I would have to do was attach the pedals, but, no it needs forks handlebars pedals & wheels!!

I guess I’ll have a go & then take it to a local bike shop to check it over

Still here…

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ok-whos-forgotten-where-they-put-the-tandem?replies=8#post-8318341

We’ve got a Thorn Voyager, an older one bought off ebay. The v-brakes are plenty adequate for most stuff, roads, cycle paths, forest roads.

Riding 3 up (smallest in a child seat on the back) can be a little unbalanced when she dances about but generally the bike feels super stable and solid. It’s done numerous forest trails including marked green routes in Dalby and Mabie and an explore round Dalbeattie.

A front basket from Aldi solved the carrying a cafe lock, snacks, stuff when the rack is occupied.

Toe clips help to keep the stoker’s feet on the pedals, especially when we were getting used to it, and I’d recommend them if you don’t have them. It did take a while to persuade the stoker that it would be fun and bribery from mum sealed the deal. Now it’s one of the things that get requested,’ Daddy can we go to [inset current place of choice, often just the shops] on the tandem this weekend’.

Otherwise just enjoy it, we have as have our friends who also have Thorns, one older one like ours and one with the newer yellow one that they’ve done loads of touring on.

Photo link:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/RffR3u]20160227_145838[1][/url] by Oliver Milling, on Flickr

That Aldi basket looks suspiciously like a wheelie bin to me 🙂

You all look as though you’re having great fun.

tjemma – not sure where in bucks you are, email in profile if you need any help or advice. Hope you enjoy it.

Just to update.

Our first ride out on the tandem went well…with a lot of interest /amusement and yes even laughter from my older children & husband!

Daughter absolutely loved it as we rode to school on her birthday. She laughed the entire time wanting me to go faster. She’s a bit of a speed freak so did get the hump when I was trying to slow down.

As for the bike, I am really happy with it.

However I plan to take it into a local bike shop to have it serviced, as the gears could be smoother.
Also it was supplied with two sets of pedals with toe clips. I have removed the clips from my set as I am not comfortable using them. Will look to change my daughters to some better quality ones as the clips are really cheap looking.

Will be back on the banana bike on Monday morning weather permitting.