Add to that you’re a pretty low activist user and only posted on a few threads in the last week or so your perception is screwed.

That’s a bit low, and a few times now I’ve seen references to members who don’t post all that often as if them, their opinions and posts ain’t worth much.

If you want to make this forum exclusive for the handful of ‘regulars’ who seem to post something every 5mins then go ahead, just make it clear so the rest of us know.

These lies were potentially libellous so the thread was pulled to avoid harm to STW not Hebtroco

I doubt a mate would sue a mate so the chances of Brant/Ed actually suing Mark, over someones elses comments, is pretty low.

When someone says something on twitter or FB they get personally sued so what is the difference with STW ? this is a genuine question btw as i do not know nor understand the legal distinction here though its an area I dont know very much about so happy to be educated by the facts.

I also agree the mods are going to get bashed whatever happens and i am not that interested in that – FWIW i dont think its inherently wrong to defend mates and we all do it [ or we should].

Sounds like most of the complainants here expect HebTroCo to just forget about growth and new products, and just subsidise their original supplier?

Did they not set up the company to save trousertown?

Looking at this from another angle, if you setup a company with a single supplier, but as a result of growth in sales/product range that supplier is no longer appropriate, what do you do? Sounds like most of the complainants here expect HebTroCo to just forget about growth and new products, and just subsidise their original supplier?

<ethical mode on> given the supplier was instrumental in providing the expertise needed to develop the product / business in the first place, my first instinct would be to pay it back by working with them to enable them to invest sufficiently so they expand capacity and capability to be able to do it.

But there are many reasons why that may not work – capacity and capability can’t be turned off and on with a switch, the cash flow and profit margins needed to sustain reinvestment are different, and you could have a situation where if the bottom falls out of the market the supplier now has a bigger problem because they now have a factory twice the size to try and fill.

And who knows how / if those discussions went between the supplier and Hebtroco, all we have are the two alternative and inevitably biased views.

– if I was a mod/Mark I’d have shut discussion of hebtroco down.

Why?

[…]which has struck a cord[…]

Subtle- like it!

That’s a bit low, and a few times now I’ve seen references to members who don’t post all that often as if them, their opinions and posts ain’t worth much.

If you want to make this forum exclusive for the handful of ‘regulars’ who seem to post something every 5mins then go ahead, just make it clear so the rest of us know.

How is that low?

I’ve pointed out that he may have missed how active mods are on other threads if he’d read more, that’s all.

He opinion is welcome but his perception was wrong.

Dear me.

Why?

because it’s a moderation nightmare of conjecture, name calling and ‘people stood in the middle throwing poo at both sides’ (winky-smiley-face).

Not for legal reasons or anythign like that.

running a (successful) business involves making a lot of tricky decisions, and although with hindsight the outcome may be obvious, often you just have to go with your best judgment. I wonder how many of the detractors on here have run their own business? It isn’t easy and sometimes you get it wrong (generalising rather than being specific in this instance!)

given the supplier was instrumental in providing the expertise needed to develop the product / business in the first place, my first instinct would be to pay it back by working with them to enable them to invest sufficiently so they expand capacity and capability to be able to do it.

The counter to this argument is that for a successful, growing business it’s madness to put all your eggs in one basket with a single supplier, as any disaster or falling out with that supplier would ruin you! It sounds from the HTC statement like they first tried to split production between the two factories, which IMO is fair & also sensible. Possibly a different solution would’ve been to have each factory make different products entirely rather than standardise the same product between the two.

Whilst I agree that the company founding (and initial social media carpet bombing) did seem to be all about resurrecting HB, if the original factory owner has shit the bed (which is what it sounds like from the social media post) there’s not really anything HTC can do except try to make the best of it from now on!

Do I know Brant and Ed? Yes I do.

I don’t. (Is “Ed” Ed Oxley? In which case I’ve met him briefly, but wouldn’t go as far as to say I knew him.)

1) I’m surprised the thread is still open – if I was a mod/Mark I’d have shut discussion of hebtroco down.

2) Moderators on here try their best to be, errm, moderate. I know none of them (that I know of) but they’ve always struck me as trying to do the best for the forum as a whole rather than toeing soem corporate line laid down by Mark.

These comments are kind of two sides of the same coin. The only “corporate line” I’ve ever been given is not to do anything which would actively harm STW (i.e. we’ve never been mandated to big up either the site, its sponsors or its “friends”).

We don’t generally censor discussion – and as I’ve said before, I wouldn’t be doing this role if we had to act as censors for opinion someone else disagrees with – but in this particular situation we had to be a little cautious in case the whole thing went legal. STW is jointly liable for the forum content (as a publisher) and if someone states something as fact which is untrue then it potentially could be libellous.

Drac – in your role as moderator I object to you saying that my perception is screwed; can you explain what you mean?
My level of activity – as measured by number of posts is irrelevant; I post when a subject interests me and I have something to say.
You appear to assume some correlation between how much I post and how much I read other threads.
Fact – i scan each forum a couple of times daily and am aware of the frequency of mod posts.

can you explain what you mean?

You want him to explain again what he meant?

Seems a pretty clear explanation to me.

I am sure he is sorry he misunderestimated your dedication to the forum and your knowledge base

No wonder they are mainly anonymous 🙄

FWIW i suspect the moderators prefer the occasional poster to the usual suspects as the former generate less fewer* work for them – i say work but its volunteering

* for flashy 😉

Drac – in your role as moderator I object to you saying that my perception is screwed; can you explain what you mean?

Ok.

1) Don’t accuse mods of looking after mates as they doesn’t happen.
2) Saying we active more on this thread as we we are mates with Brant and Ed is wrong
3) You may scan threads but that clearly means you misshow active Cougar especially is on many other threads, I go through spates as it depends if I’m working or not. So your perception is wrong.

The counter to this argument is that for a successful, growing business it’s madness to put all your eggs in one basket with a single supplier, as any disaster or falling out with that supplier would ruin you!

My counter to your counter is what we used to call the [redacted in case it’s libellous but think major FMCG company] protocol.

They’d award you business that would use a substantial proportion of your capacity for a product line. Because it filled your plant, you were glad of it but in turn you couldn’t do some other pieces of small business at higher margin and they’d go to other suppliers and strike a relationship there.

Then the next year – ‘we’ve decided to award the volume to you again but we need a 2% saving from all our suppliers…..’

and the year after…..

and the year after…..

and then in the end you could barely afford to do the business because margins got so squeezed, but you couldn’t afford not to because without the volume, the plant was barely viable.

Used to be one of the banes of my life, when KAM’s would be being rewarded for retaining the business for another year with ‘only’ a 2% concession while i watched the plant capacity sucked up again at an ever lower contribution.

^^^ quite, although there is an important distinction between (small) businesses who try to behave ethically and, er, everyone else 🙂

I was reminded of this when hebtroco fired up, surely not the only person.
Looks like they’re going in different directions, one having changed their goals…

Cardigan is a small town of 4,000 good people. 400 of them used to make jeans. They made 35,000 pairs a week. For three decades.
Then one day the factory closed. It left town. But all that skill and knowhow remained. Without any way of showing the world what they could do.
That’s why we have started The Hiut Denim Company. To bring manufacturing back home. To use all that skill on our doorstep. And to breathe new life into our town.
As one of the Grand Masters said to me when I was interviewing: “This is what I know how to do. This is what I do best.” I just sat there thinking I have to make this work.
So yes, our town is going to make jeans again.
Here goes.

Drac
1. I did not accuse anyone of anything; specifically, I did not accuse Cougar of looking after mates.
2. I did not say you were more active on this thread because you may be mates with the trousermen.
3. I am aware that Cougar is an active moderator; my perception is neither screwed nor skewed.

Just to self-correct, I scan the forums and read those threads which are of interest.

Junkyard – what are you on about?
0/10 for attempted sarcasm.

It’s there business, they can do what they want, either way good on them for doing something.

I didn’t realise they outsourced the manufacture though, this has highlighted that, I presumed from all of the videos etc. that they had started to make trousers again in HB & employed some people. The video looked like they were re-opening a mill. I liked the idea and was about to buy some I kinda bought into that idea, now I’m not so sure but that’s business no need to get grumpy and all ‘he said, she said’

@vinnyeh

yes, Cardigan’s my hometown, so I thought of them too.

One company is restarting a factory & employing people as I understand it, the other’s are placing orders with existing factories. Not saying that’s wrong, it’s just different.

£175 for a belt?
😆

Not sure why people are so keen to publicize this company. Either you want some *overpriced troos or you don’t.

*Visit your local tailor to put things in perspective.

Drac
1. I did not accuse anyone of anything; specifically, I did not accuse Cougar of looking after mates.
2. I did not say you were more active on this thread because you may be mates with the trousermen.
3. I am aware that Cougar is an active moderator; my perception is neither screwed nor skewed.

Oops! I owe you an apology I completely misread who posted what and now i luck like a ****.

Sorry about that. 😳

£175 for a belt?

Yes, but check out the hot chick who makes them…….. 8)

I’m told Yorkshire tea is from India ….. WTAF

Well…… The actual leaves may be from India but they are blended in Harrogate, Yorkshire, so the actual product comes from there. It’s not Yorkshire tea before it comes to Yorkshire.

As for the trousers I do think it’s a bit naughty to push the whole saving trouser town thing only to not save it any more when there’s more money over the hill.

Brant’s a great marketing man and a very shrewd self promoter. He’s been the same since the Zak Tempest days. He’s also a business man in the ‘making lots of money’ sense and is clearly happy to use what is necessary to further his own personal success. Some will applaud this, some will absolutely not.

Would I buy some? Thought about it before but have now been put off as the whole thing leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth.

I’m told Yorkshire tea is from India

Lies I tell thee.
Have you not visited the world famous plantations of Keighley?

I’m told Yorkshire tea is from India

Look on the Yorkshire Tea site – they are quite clear about where their tea comes from (and it’s not just India) and they have never made claims that the tea is grown in Yorkshire which is a very different proposition to that of the HBTC.

Well done them on making it such a success that this issue has arisen, great to see.
But their USP was #savingtrousertown, and that factory or mill was an integral part of what they did in their first 12 months.
Just seems that they only changed the website text and marketing spiel once forced to do so.
And I do think there’s an element of ‘live by the sword and die by the sword’ – if they are happy to use this thread to help get their business off the ground then I think they should come on here and be a bit more open and honest when the muck starts getting flung.
Wish them all the best for the future, as it’s a great venture, though as chestrockwell said maybe it does leave a slightly sour taste in the mouth.

But, yes, only STW would give a sh*t about all this!! 😀

Look on the Yorkshire Tea site …

and I thought it was all about saving the once great “Tea Town” aka Hebden Bridge….

Zak Tempest

Wasn’t he the guy who bought Jimmy Saville’s bikes?
😈

In amongst the debates about who’s debating what, has anyone managed to establish definitively whether or not HTC were still presenting their web presence as “saviours of Trouser town, trousers made in Hebden Bridge” after they’d arranged for production elsewhere?

And I don’t care about stock levels, lead times etc. – to me, if they had signed an order for production of trousers from outside Hebden Bridge, at that point they should have modified their marketing message. If it doesn’t stray into areas of legal concern, I’d go so far as to say that if they didn’t, then they were being dishonest.

If they did change the message, then t.b.h. fair enough imho. We can all think it’s a shame, but from what I’ve read earlier in the thread it seems that Brant and Ed share that sentiment too. But they’ve still got a business to run / develop and they’re making the best of it.

Businesses change:

VolksWagen means “people’s car” and the original USP was cheap cars for the masses. Now it’s a semi-premium brand.

ASOS originally stood for “As Seen On Screen” and their USP was supplying you with the sunglasses that you’d seen Brad Pitt wearing in his latest movie. They don’t do that any more.

HTC was set up to make trousers in Hebden Bridge. But that hasn’t worked out, so now they’re doing something a bit different.

Objecting to them doing that seems to me about as appropriate as complaining that Carphone Warehouse don’t sell carphones any more.

After reading all this I’m about to buy a pair of their moleskins.

Do the trousers all have pockets large enough for their phones?

of 4,000 good people. 400 of them used to make jeans.

I have to confess, that’s not the garment I was expecting.

After reading all this I’m about to buy a pair of their moleskins.

Are you getting a belt to go with them though?? I bet they’re really made by somebody else and they just got a model in for the photos…………….

I bet they’re really made by somebody else and they just got a model in for the photos

how much?

Tommy making a belt

cant get it to embed soz!

Objecting to them doing that seems to me about as appropriate as complaining that Carphone Warehouse don’t sell carphones any more.

But Carphone Warehouse (like Yorkshire Tea) don’t make the claims that HBTC do/did, theirs are simply business names.

There is nothing wrong with being called Hebden Bridge Trouser Company then selling trousers from all over the globe *unless* the central message of the brand is that they actually make the trousers in Bridge. Which is what they were doing.

There is nothing wrong with being called Hebden Bridge Trouser Company then selling trousers from all over the globe *unless* the central message of the brand is that they actually make the trousers in Bridge. Which is what they were doing.

Their name is Hebtroco.

Their name is Hebtroco.

That’s what he said.

We’ll know when they’ve really sold out as they will be available on Sportpursuit at 50% off.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hebtroco/properly-made-british-trousers-with-a-lifetime-gua

We wear jeans. Jeans are great. But we wanted something more. Something that is just as hard wearing but with a bit more style, that can be smart or casual. And we found it right here, in Hebden Bridge -AKA Trouser Town.
Back in the 1800s Hebden Bridge in Yorkshire was known as Trouser Town. Back then it was producing twenty thousand pairs a week.

Today, there’s just one factory remaining. With six members of staff, working a three day week, producing 176 trousers a week. Amazing staff making incredible trousers. Yes, trousers can be incredible. They are the highest specification trousers around, made for some of the most exclusive brands and most prominent public figures in the world.

HebTroCo are aiming to get the town known once again for what it was once so famous for. We want to continue and reinvigorate the manufacturing of trousers in Hebden Bridge and ensure that the tradition remains unbroken.
….
The HebTroCo aims to bring a trouser brand back to Hebden Bridge. We communicate and operate in modern 21st century ways but we keep traditional manufacturing techniques, allowing the factories and staff to keep working and growing.

We ship directly to you to keep overheads down. No high street rent or glitzy offices. Just brilliant trousers made in Trouser Town by skilled staff, sold directly to you

I see no way of arguing that they did not use making trousers in trouser town part of their pitch/USP.