Would moving from hard tail bike with 120mm of travel and a 69.25′ head angle, to another ht with the same travel but a head angle of 66.6′ be like the difference between night and day, or something you would forget in a few rides?

Is it worth it for someone that just rides around the Peak, and whilst not mincing, generally keeping their wheels on the ground*?

Thanks.

*to me a manual is a book of instruction, a tabletop is where I put my tea and a bunny hop is probably something I last did around a maypole.

it would to me, but people are all different – some like it slack. I’m sure you get used to it and if you like steeper stuff it may even start to work okay.

You’ll get used to it pretty quickly and going ‘back’ to steep with skinny bars will just feel odd!

66 degrees is pretty slack, unless you are hooning downhill over rough stuff then I can’t see it being any advantage and possibly the opposite

I guess for more context I’m currently riding a 26’soul, which doesn’t feel steep to me, and has 780mm bars on it, to something like the Forme Ripley or Ragley Marley

But in my old head, 66′ is downhill bike angles? And my riding isn’t going to change, as it’s pretty much tied to family life, so I ain’t going to suddenly be heading to the Alps. So yeah, I’m wondering if such a change would make what I currently enjoy and do, a little bit more rubbish, or wouldn’t change it that much.

Both of the new bike options look like they are based around the “modern mtb geometry” school of thought (longer lower slacker) than what you have. Looking at head angle alone probably isn’t the best indication of how the bikes will handle (chainstay length and reach are also likely to be in different proportions) compared to your Soul.

No real right or wrong answer there really, but whether the “new” approach appeals to you or not for what you enjoy.

Lots written about this type of geometry approach if you want to do some research on it (e.g Pinkbike – how long low slack can we go?), but a test ride is probably a good idea really.

Cheers for the link Owenp, I wondered if I was over simplifying the issue, I guess I just wanted a simple answer. Unfortunately meaningful test rides aren’t really going to be possible, due to time and life stuff. In fairness, I don’t have a clue if the new approach is appealing or not, but it seems that it needs considering when looking at bikes now. But I’ll do some reading.

It feels odd, but I’m kinda limiting my possible spend as I don’t really have a clue what bike would be ‘right’ for me given the number of variants of things. I used to enjoy buying mountain bikes, but I’m not getting that at present. It feels like I’m just trying to tick some boxes on standards I didn’t know I wanted or needed. Perhaps it’s my age (45) or perhaps I just need a new road bike 😀

As above there will be many differences and not just the head angle.

more modern bikes will often be longer top tube, shorter stem, wider bars, slacker head angle and then other things like different fork offsets in recent years as wheels have got larger.

That said I stuck a 2 degree angle set headset on my C456. At first it felt vague and horrible, then I made a few other tweaks and changed how I ride it which is th most important change IMO.

66.6 degrees is about right for a 650b trail hardtail IMO.

Will feel a bit different at first, but isn’t really extreme. There are certainly slacker, more “hardcore” HTs out there now.

66 is about average for new trail bikes right now, it’s easy to get used to if you are willing.

In fairness, providing I don’t need a dude haircut, and don’t start using words like ‘game changer’ and ‘colourway’, I’m willing to try most things.

Just to show how lost I am, I am clearly not understanding what a trail bike is. If 66′ is a normal head angle for a 27.5 trail bike, why has the new 27.5 Soul got a 69′ head angle? Is that not a trail bike?

180mm forks on the Soul will make it a game changer 😉

@ 45 yo I went from a 68′ Clockwork to a 66′ HT, yes it’s different, yes you adapt to the different and before you know it, it’s the new normal. For me, the slack more planted feel allowed me to ride some steep / arse on tyre sections I’d bottled before, I have a steep wooded playground on my loop so it made it worthwhile, I can also head out for up to 5hrs of XC on the same bike, so for me it’s helped not hindered. Geometry changed throughout the bike not just HA.

The difference will be initially noticeable, but as with many things you soon adjust and it becomes ‘normal’…

And this:

there will be many differences and not just the head angle

Bikes being the sum of their parts and all, other factors will affect how it handles and rides.

As a “wheels on the ground” sort of rider OP having a more stable, controllable bike makes plenty of sense, slacker HA’s aren’t just for DH bikes, and DH bikes have become much slacker themselves in recent years, 66* would be quite “conservative” DH bike geometry these days I reckon…

It’s also worth noting that a sagging FS bike retains or even slackens off its angles when you put a rider onboard, HTs steepen by a degree or two… Stated figures are just an indication…

I’ve just gone from a scandal at 72° to a solaris at 68.5°, 3.5° slacker, all of the same components, it’s a lot better when pointed downhill and definitely more confidence inspiring, with very little sufficel differenceb in climbing ability, if any in fact.

Mk2 of both bikes, both 29″ wheels.

Wiggle offer a 30-day test ride, and they have some good discounts too

Fair dues, and thanks for advice and experience. I may well embrace the modern world! Ta.

Cotic quote their geometry when sagged, whilst almost everyone else quotes the geometry static. The static head angle of a Soul 26 with 120mm forks is just under 68 deg. It isn’t slack but it’s not all that steep.

My previous hardtail was a Soul 26 with 140mm forks, so 67 deg static head angle. My current hardtail started out with a 64.5 deg head angle and is now at 65 deg (they all sag about a degree steeper). My full-sus trail bike has a 64 deg head angle (and that doesn’t change at sag). I don’t think everyone would like how it behaves but I do!

Typical STW tangent suggestion, but have you considered 29in wheels if you’re changing the whole bike anyway?

If I was limited to a hardtail in the Peak I’d absolutely want one for the bump-smoothing, speed-carrying effects. Sounds like it’d suit your riding too.

Something around 68deg head angle would do nicely.

😉

I’m about as quick on my hardtail around the Peak as I am on my full suspension, maybe a touch quicker on the full suspension but only a touch, the main difference is I’m not as beat up on the full suss… both 29ers