Since the introduction of disc brakes I can't think of anything new that has made a significant improvment to riding. IMO adding more than 7 sprockets to a cassette is retrograde, except perhaps for racing, and narrower chains are likely to wear out faster. HT II also seems an equivocal improvement.
Bike Forum
[closed]
Has MTB innovation reached a dead end ?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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We've been saying this for, ohh, 20 years now.
Most things have now been invented, yes, but the evoultion won't stop.....
EDIT
Anyway SFB, I didn't think you cared about bikes? Posted 1 year ago # -
they're just bikes, what were you expecting?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm working on the self-cleaning bike that once its got itself sparkling and lubed, then pours me a glass of Shiraz and makes me cheese on toast by the time I'm out of the shower
Posted 1 year ago # -
I guess suspension designs have come on a long way, and quality of materials. A lot of "improvements" might just be PR nonsense, like the idea of "superspace age materials" and the elusive "frictionless bearings".
my vote has to be lock on grips though. as a late convert, and a previous master of hairspray then cable ties then having grips slip off on fast, rainy, scottish singletrack, these things are magic.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I reckon we'll see gearbox bikes along with some serious efforts to reduce unsprung weight in full sus bikes. It's obviously already on the way, and it'll make a massive difference to maintenance and the responsiveness of suspension systems.
Posted 1 year ago # -
As above, the evolution is slow, but if you look at a bike in 10 years there will be a marked difference I'm sure, especially in the materials used.
Carbon Fibre technology will come on a fair bit and most likely become more affordable too.Posted 1 year ago # -
Anyway SFB, I didn't think you cared about bikes?
not particularly no, this just came into my head while I was thinking about the expensive fork thing. I'm interested in reliability where it translates into 'surviving neglect' - but that doesn't seem to get much of a look-in
what were you expecting?
I'm not expecting anything other than riding them. I don't see lack of innovation as a bad thing provided they work properly. I suppose I'm decrying the constant incremental 'refinement' just to stimulate sales
Posted 1 year ago # -
With the invention of electricity, I can see electronically powered brakes and gears being developed very soon.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Snakebite and I finished our ride last Thursday night over Cannock Chase and I said pretty much the same thing to him. Our bikes just did what we needed of them and our lights allowed us to go as fast as we wanted.
Having been involved in mountain biking and windsurfing (recreationally) and commercial IT applications (professionally) for over 25 years I can see the same patterns. All of these were emerging technologies at first, with a huge rate of change and loads of developmental blind alleys. Now we've reached a position where all the basics are understood, there are very few (bikes, boards, sails, apps - insert as appropriate) that won't do the job, and the manufacturers have to find new ways of getting us to part with our cash.
Or it could just be that SFB and I are getting old and prefer the riding to the lure of shiny stuff.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I suppose I'm decrying the constant incremental 'refinement' just to stimulate sales
Have a read of Schumpeter's stuff on innovation & creative destruction. As a rule, we see pretty steady improvements, with revolutionary stuff happening on a far rarer basis.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Depends what you mean by 'innovation', and how and where you ride.
I'd venture geometry changes, bolt through forks, larger diameter stantions, dropper seatposts, and tubeless wheel setups. Whether you feel the advantage of any of those is of course dependent on how and where you ride, as I said.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I reckon we'll see gearbox bikes
Huh, tried that and found it wanting
As a rule, we see pretty steady improvements
changes yes, but improvements ?
With the invention of electricity, I can see electronically powered brakes and gears being developed very soon.
that will continue to work when wet ? "Oh, I can't ride, my bike needs charging..."
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'd venture geometry changes
ie fashion ?bolt through forks
I'll give you that onelarger diameter stantions
k...dropper seatposts
scraping the barrel ?and tubeless wheel setups
hmmm, some seem to swear by tubeless, others say it's crap
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think as people we are becoming less "hardy" and more suited to the easier life with modern luxuries.
I can see people becoming sick of the effort involved with mountain biking, traipsing round some rainswept yorkshire moor on a Sunday afternoon when they could be at home watching the LCD.
I imagine the bike of the future to be an air conditioned, transparent, fully crash proof "cyclopod" where the cyclist can sit and enjoy the ride in comfort.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The problem with bikes is that the basic design is too good. The chain is so efficient gearboxes don't come close. Rear mechs aren't perfect but when not changing gear they add very little resistance. There's been over 100 years of people trying to improve bikes and so far all we've had is the C5, plus modern versions.
For 99.9% of riders, the current bike (maybe the Gocycle, but only going on what it looks like, I haven't ridden one) is still one of the best inventions ever. For the rest of us, there may be a few tweeks but again, what we have is pretty well perfect.Posted 1 year ago # -
Innovation you say?
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Slow speed damping/pedal platforms allowing more than a couple of inches travel on trail bikes, air sprung shocks, dropping seatposts, hydroformed tubing and twin ring chainguides. Nothing groundbreaking and mostly existing products applied to biking but so were disc brakes and suspension. IIRC the only inventions that were specifically for the bicycle were the pneumatic tyre and derailleur gears so no groundbreaking innovation for years.
Posted 1 year ago # -
what we have is pretty well perfect.
I would question that in terms of stuff wearing out far too quickly, but that's not much of a sales point, so unlikley to attract much engineering support
Posted 1 year ago # -
Binners, how much for the shiraz bike? I'll take two.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Its all academic anyway. They could invent bikes with thought controlled gearboxes, traction controlled 2 wheel drive and on-board blow jobs and you lot would still ride some weird steel singlespeed 29er
Posted 1 year ago # -
Innovations that have genuinely moved riding on (in my time, say last 25 years):
indexed gears
spds
suspension
disc brakesNext step has to be gearboxes or similar IMO.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Gary. I'm having slight teething problems. It keeps forgetting the Worcestor sauce and has recently developed a penchant for Merlot. Which... as we all know is a brute of a grape
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yep. Once the gears get sorted we're done.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think they will invent a lightweight and simple way of storing the kinetic energy that is currently lost from both braking and being sucked up by suspension and storing it so that you can then either release it when you need a boost - kind of like a bike nitro or maybe use it for charging battery devices such as lights, gps, smartphones etc.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Upside down forks.
Common on motorcycles now, so why are they so rare on bicycles ?Hub gears.
If they could be made light, cheap and efficient they would take over from derailleurs.Posted 1 year ago # -
since disc brakes the following has changed my riding.
waterproof jacket, not shower resistant, not starts waterproofish but doesnt last but a real and easily maintainable waterproof jacket.
lights - small neat lights of acceptable weight, good burn times, great light output.
tubeless wheels/tyres - i live in a flinty, hawthorn and bramble filled world. The time i used to spend fixing tubes i can now preach the UST gosple on STW.
Posted 1 year ago # -
As it has become more popular the manufactures have made lots of small imporvemnts all round. They are competing for your money afterall. (some are marketing bollocks, but most bikes now are better than they were 10 years ago generally).
As for groundbreaking - I dont see anything, just continued small improvements down to better materials being used. Gearboxes are not needed as the std setup copes well enough.
I would just like stuff to last longer and weigh less and cost less - oh and Id like the moon on a stick as well please.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Bicycles and Tricycles: An Elementary Treatise on Their Design and Construction
Archibald Sharp only had so many ideas that could be recycled over the years.Posted 1 year ago # -
Gearboxes are not needed as the std setup copes well enough.
On a FS bike, there are issues with the chain tension altering depending on the gear you're in, and the entire cassette / freehub / rear mech assembly is a fair chunk of unsprung weight, which reduces the performance of the suspension.
It'll come in from DH, and as soon as the price / reliability compromise is right, the whole world and his dog will want one, given that you'll be able to lose all the above parts and a chainring & mech.
Posted 1 year ago # -
gearboxes and beltdrives are what im hoping for
uppydowny seatposts once reliability issues are sorted
bikes and components have got stiffer and stronger over the years, you just dont realise it now because our riding has got more aggressive/ ive put on more weight
i mean could you imagine riding a 1990s rigid hardtail with v brakes or even an elastomer sprung fork down the megavalanche course?!Posted 1 year ago # -
Playing Devil's Advocate for a second, it can be argued that cameras and electric guitars/amplifiers reached their design pinnacle about 50 years ago - yes, cameras have gone digital, but the basic design remains the same, we've just replaced film with a sensor. All the additional bits and bobs added since then are just fripperies.
Bike design may go the same way - electronically controlled suspension, riding mode/travel switches, automatically adjustable terrain-dependant geometry etc.
I'm sure tyres will get stickier and longer lasting, various other incremental design improvements will be made, but I reckon that might just be it for a good few years.I think there may be more innovation in our riding gear than our bikes over the next few years TBH.
Posted 1 year ago # -
it can be argued that cameras and electric guitars/amplifiers reached their design pinnacle about 50 years ago
I'm not buying THAT!! Digital allows anyone to take as many shots as they like and see the results straight away, encouraging experimentation without massive cost, and 'digital darkrooms' are massively quicker than splashing about in the dark!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Polaroids let you see photo's pretty instantly too. And are COOL!
Posted 1 year ago #
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