Following on from a post a few weeks back about my son waking far to early…

The situation has now got worse with complete destruction in the house the said son has never really listened to anything (only 4yrs) but he really doesn’t listen to a word, as my wife now has sleep deprivation she cant cope so this is ending up with her in a complete mood swings shouting at the children (other son is complete opposite) she basically is not coping, I am trying but I have to be out by 7.30am and not back till 6pm,I am also shattered and I cant be getting up at 5.30am and maintain my job. She doesn’t work as child cost care would be more than we’d earn etc and she wants to be a housewife.

I ask her to be calm and look at the bigger picture that if this isn’t nipped in the bud now ie the discipline it will get worse and this I know to be true I just have to look at her brother who shows no respect for his mother (he’s 43yrs old) her mum always took the easy way which is giving in to him which my wife also does…I have 3 friends that believe it or not are the same with their mothers and they are in their 40s they show little or no respect for their mothers why, because they got away with what ever they wanted in their early years.

When we talk about this she always says some people are like this (the MIL also says the same ! Funny that ).

I have suggested that he needs leadership from her and shouting at him and giving in when he shouts louder is not the answer, when she shouts at him she is out of control which then leads to him being out of control and what he needs is calm and control.

This is not a blame rant I know there are things I do or could change but and this is where I sound awful I’m at work during the day and at present her role before and after school is disciplining etc. and to remain calm I know that lack of sleep is horrid, at he weekends I do as much as I can I also work every other Sunday for 4hrs.

I just want harmony back in our house and I believe it will only come from leadership and control.

I want my wife back and my bloody son to calm down…

At school he is an angel…

Feel free to say what you like I shall be showing the Mrs this so go ahead…

Why is he waking early?

I have to be out by 7.30am and not back till 6pm,I am also shattered and I cant be getting up at 5.30am and maintain my job.

suck it up buttercup, that sounds like an easy day…

Nephew currently exactly the same.

Perfect at school and lovely with us and his grandparents, but awful at home.
Parents are quite disciplined with him, he’s just being horrible for the sake of it.

School have said it’s really common – getting used to new people at school, a degree of freedom, influences from other, different families, trying to gain attention etc.

Good luck, hope he calms down soon.

suck it up buttercup, that sounds like an easy day…

Really unhelpful post. 😐

Why is he waking early?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/early-waking-4-year-oldat-the-end-of-our-tether-help

3 day nanny, super nanny etc for how to do it. Take 3 days/1 week off work to address it together.

MrsHora gets shouty. If anyone on the street, bar etc shouted at me they’d end up upside down in a bin. I’ve total sympathy for mrshora though as shes utterly tired/worn out 🙁

i think the most telling statement you are making is that your son is an angel at school, probably because he knows he cant do whatever he wants. is there someone at the school you can talk to?
my kids play up terribly for my ex, yet never cause the slightest problem when they are with me.
all children need boundaries to feel secure imo.
you are not the only person to feel this way, im sure of that btw.

We have found that targeting one thing at a time helps, rather than jumping on every little thing.

A sticker chart is a ‘carrot’, rather than a ‘stick’ method of reinforcing good behaviour. Both parents and the children need to understand the rules of the chart and stick to them.

We don’t always get it right, but it has helped both us and our daughter massively. She is now understanding boundaries, but when tired she has problems sticking to them. It is our job to help her in this situation.

If listening is the most prevalent problem target that first (we found a week minimum). Give lots of praise when he does listen and ignore/no negative attention when not.

This parenting lark is bloody difficult at times, but overall love being a dad.

When we talk about this she always says some people are like this (the MIL also says the same ! Funny that ).

To some extent that’s true. Another view point of course, is that she can sit back and accept that and also accept that she’ll have to deal with the current behaviour. The alternative is accepting that you’re the adults and may have to behave in ways that aren’t natural to you in order to do the best for your kids.

The sleep thing may be unavoidable. Some kids don’t sleep well and no amount of smug comments from other parents who are lucky to have kids that do will fix that.

Alternatively, you may just have to get your head around the idea that this is how he will be for a while and you’ll just have to get through it as best you can. The suggestion for taking time off and trying to fix things sounds like a good one though.

And FWIW, the most effective things I’ve found, particularly at that sort of age and up is confiscating things they really like. Eg my son’s transformers went up on a shelf if he misbehaved – only for an hour normally but it was obvious and visible enough to remind him that misbehaving had consequences. You obviously need to do it in a calm way though – no shouting, clear explanation and escalation (eg more toys) as necessary.

oh and reward charts worked for a friend who’s son was pretty ‘difficult’. Points for good things, losing them for bad. Get to X points and he got a treat. More often than not, just walking over to the chart was enough to stop the bad behaviour.

I would advise the pair of you take the time to read something like a super nanny book, then you take some time off to help implement the routine / structure the pair of you agree on

The problem with your situation is coming home and offering your wife helpful advice when she’s stressed out and tired is always going to result in anger and conflict – better the advice is coming from outside, even if it is just a book

Really unhelpful post.

possibly, but I doubt his wife thinks him saying he can’t get up a 5.30 is very helpful either.

I believe it will only come from leadership and control.

Not sure I agree with this, and this will be a cause for conflict (if your wife thinks differently for example).

Our youngest is hard work compared to the other 2, but fine at nursery for the hours he goes, and fine alone with us & relatives. It’s at least partially an attention seeking behaviour and partially trying to mark his ground (3 brothers) as remove 1 child from the equation, any one of them, and harmony is restored.

Personally I’d try and up his 1 to 1 attention somehow, and cut back on the bollocking of the others. Easier said than done of course. Good Luck!

take a week off work, send wife away to her mums for the week, and stamp a new (hard) regime in place with the boy, it will either work and prove you right, or completely not work and prove your wife right that you know nothing about parenting and that every things your fault

*caution, this depends on whether mum will keep new regime when she gets back

** caution, if this succeeds, it will probably make your wife feel like a failure and you will undoubtebly pay the price, but this needs to be counterbalanced against the fact that every things probably your fault already…

Adds jam bo to the list of tragic empathy free attention seekers
OP that what happens if you dont give your child enough love and attention as a child they crave it as adult and will do anything to get it.

Its hard as at times they test is all and when you are tired you do silly stuff
Its not that she is not coping no one copes with that they just deal wit it the best they can
Its easy to know what is the right thing to do but when you are knackered you dont always do that which is best as sometimes you just want some peace and a rest or you lose your temper as you have had enough
your wife needs your support here but you both need to agree what to do and how to nip this in the bud

Can you get a break once a week with family taking him?
Can you have home one day per week at the weekend and your wife can go somewhere and just sleep?

Just imagine every day is not enough sleep then dealing with the unreasonable and insatiable demands of an unreasonable selfish egotistical so and so [ your son not you 😉 ]

She needs your help but you both need to agree what to do

Every phase your child goes through seems like the worst and like it will never end or they wont grow out of it or they will be ruined for life if you do nothing
take the long view you have 14 years to train him

You have my sympathy but there is no magic bullet only time and joint effort

Bets of luck to you both.

take a week off work, send wife away to her mums for the week, and stamp a new (hard) regime in place with the boy

This. You’re the boss, so is your mrs. You can achieve domination in a matter of hours.

If you don’t do it now you won’t be able to when he’s 14 and taller than you.

Adds jam bo to the list of tragic empathy free attention seekers

thanks, but I’ve done my fair share of child induced sleep deprivation and playing the ‘i’ve got to go to work‘ card really doesn’t cut it.

I know your as awesome in the real world as you are on here which is why this thread should really be about you rather than offering the OP advice with a real problem
ATTENTION ME ME ME ME

Let him have his thread back you have given your “advice”

not everybody can make the right decisions at the right time when it comes to parenting, its not like you get taught parenting at school so you shouldnt ever think your are the expert. Most of us get by. we usually inherit our parenting skills from opur own parents, which can often be the rubbish.

You have our empathy and without knowing exactly how things are it impossible to derive a solution. All I can offer is my own little experience which is that kids like routine. your sons routine of early mornings clearly needs to change.

At four its not worth trying rational arguments, they dont work. I thinki the first thing I would look at is making sure he is just plain knackered when he goes to bed. bike ride around the block or something. I might also look at what he is eating and investigate E numbers.

Naughty steps wqork as does sending to their room to think about it.

And try to give your wife a break. send her to her mum or away for a few days, take the time off work to cover for her and make sure you have a rest yourse;lf before returning to work. Enlist the family to help if necessary.

And finally theres little point in just shouting at him. He’s clearly used to that and perhaps atttention seeks that very response from you in his actions.

You have my sympathy. My daughter (aged 2) went through a phase of waking at 5am every day, coupled with getting up several times in the night, and screaming blue murder when we tried to put her back to bed. She worked out how to climb out of her cot and over the stairgate we put on her door!

We tried all the usual advice – gro clocks, moving her to a proper bed, lights on, lights off, door open, door closed, earlier bedtime, later bedtime, etc, etc. Ultimately, I think she just grew out of it, and maybe all the advice is just stuff to keep you occupied!

We’ve found that now she is a little older, she responds better to delayed gratification, so she gets a sticker if she stays in bed until the sun comes up on the gro clock (6.45am, and we are careful to give her lots of praise). I always remind her of that as I put her to bed. We often hear her singing away to herself from 6ish, but if she’s not tearing the place up, we don’t care. We’ve also found that for punishment, ignoring her is much more effective than shouting or even stern words.

This isn’t advice as kids are all different, but maybe something to think about.

If you don’t do it now you won’t be able to when he’s 14 and taller than you.

Winna get them outa bed at 14yrs

Your wife is quite possibly horrendously depressed by it all.. We’re going through the same and it’s depressing me..

My wife is at work all day ( she at least has the decency to take it in turns with the early mornings though) the dynamic between the sleep deprived stay at home parent and the child is vastly different to the experience of the well rested parent who gets a break all day at work, achieving success and receiving praise and affirmation..

I expect what depresses and weakens your wife most is when you get home and tell her what a failure she is, and how you could do it so much better (which is essentially like you arrogantly telling an astronaut that you could do it much better BTW)

The first thing that happens to me when depressed is that I get anxious, which causes me in turn to become irritable, not a good state of mind to be in around young kids.. I use anti depressants to combat this and have found them to be very effective..

It can be very tough. And there may be a whole host of root causes of destructive behaviour at home, not just slack/soft parenting.

So he’s four, and has just started school – my instinct would be that the effort of being an angel at school means that he is a bit overwhelmed and knackered by it (reception year can be very hard), but being a good lad he behaves at school and saves up all the **** for you at home. I’d rather that than the other way around.

If your missus and you are stressing over it, he’ll feel that and it could be a bit of a vicious cycle.

Above all, I remember that my kids went through phases where they were almost impossible, but that’s all they were, phases. It could be that once he gets used to this massive change in his daily routine, he’ll settle slightly and you can all unwind.

Sure, be firm and set boundaries, but remember he’s barely past toddler stage, even if he’s wearing a school uniform now.

The problem with your situation is coming home and offering your wife helpful advice when she’s stressed out and tired is always going to result in anger and conflict – better the advice is coming from outside, even if it is just a book

Definitely, I can just imagine she feels: stuck with the kid all day, then you breeze in and start telling her what to do…

Things I’d try:

1. Positive reinforcement – the chart + stars on the fridge is a good start.

2. Bedtime routine – and here you (OP) need to be doing most of it. Give your wife some time off, if only for a couple of weeks. Yeah, it’ll be an effort, but by being seen to do your part you’ll defuse the situation.

3. Put your son to bed later, after a couple of days he will naturally wake up later. As long as he’s up in time for breakfast / getting to school…

It’s tough ain’t it. But… you have to develop an understanding of what your wife is feeling and work with her, not at her. You have your theories about what will solve the problem. They may or may not be correct. But you won’t get anywhere just telling her how to do things. Especially if she isn’t that type of character.

From your original post – Asking her to calm down and picture what will happen to the kids in years to come if she doesn’t stamp down some authority is going to pile on the pressure to her, make her feel like the worlds worst mother and create tension between the two of you.

Everyone has there own parenting styles. The two of you need to sit down together and work out how you are going to get through this.

simples.. you have to be up at 6.30 anways so make the kid stay in his room until that time.. he ll soon get bored shouting banging to himself.. no reaction ignore it.. couple of weeks and he ll stop ..

oh and bed early for everyone same time every night for kids same routine every night do not deviate you suck up to the kid once you ll do it forever.

which is essentially like you arrogantly telling an astronaut that you could do it much better

I think that’s a slight exaggeration

take a week off work, send wife away to her mums for the week, and stamp a new (hard) regime in place with the boy, it will either work and prove you right, or completely not work

This is a very good idea, but it is fraught with difficulties as shown above. If you don’t succeed then you’re no further on, if you do succeed then the possibility is that your wife will resent the fact that you’ve sorted it out when she couldn’t. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

We had huge problems with both kids not sleeping. I remember lots of miserable weekend mornings sat with the babies downstairs in a semi comatose state at 5am waiting for 9:30 to come around so I could go back to bed for a few hours. But it’s loads better now. The kids sleep longer.

The phase will pass.

Our kids also slept badly during the night and we disagreed on how that should be dealt with. In the end the first week she was away from home with work after maternity leave I put the baby to sleep in its own bedroom and he slept great all week. The challenge was getting the wife to accept that arrangement when she returned without it being a conflict between “her way” and “my way”

Thank you for all the input, we are going to make time over the weekend and make a plan of some sort…

We have recently had the same with our youngest, had to go back to basics, proper bed time routine and morning routine, down by 6.30-7 up at 7.30 no matter how knackered he was after the previous nights wake ups.
Got his daytime nap back to 10am whereas it had crept to the afternoon, and restricted it to an hour.
Made sure he had tea before 5 and Carbs work well too(again it had crept later)

It also took me dealing with the night time wake ups
(Controlled crying- 2 minutes, go in, settle, come out again, 5 minutes, repeat etc)as Mrs Dom was really too stressed and would eventually give in and go in and get him.
This quietened him down but just taught him that if he screams loud enough / long enough he’ll get taken out of his room. Therefore it makes it twice as hard to deal with next time.

He screams at me and points out the door as he wants to come out, but I just let him know everythings ok and he calms down in a few minutes now, knows I`m not going to give in and he will lie down and self soothe off to sleep again.
Be aware this has taken up to 3 hours constant (controlled Crying) to get him to settle lately after him “Learning” that he has got out by doing it before.

Hes been ok for a few nights now, but he was awake at 4 this morning crying, so I was up with him doing the above.
Back in bed 5-10 minutes later and he was awake when I left his room, he slept through till 7ish this morning and woke up happy again.

Its tough, but it is as complicated as you want to make it.

Don’t get them out
Controlled crying is tough but effective (And worth it long term)
You have to remain calm but don’t back down
Sort the routine
Ours is:
Tea
bit of play
Bath for both
Reading books (With Milk for the youngest)
Bed by 7 now for both

Most of the time they will both sleep 12 hours straight through

Be aware, we had similar sleep problems with number 1 until we realised we were keeping her up too late in the mistaken belief she would be more tired. she was actually getting over tired and not going down easily.
Once we pulled it back to 6-6.30 bed time she started going straight through the night.

You have my sympathies but IME it is solvable, but it may get harder for a few days while you deal with it, do not argue with your wife over it, you both need to stay calm.
Good luck

I think kids act according to the environment they are in. At school, there probably isn’t much shouting and rowing, so at that age he’s just fitting in. At home, if it’s all shouting and screaming, well that’s a combative environment, so I guess he’s just being combative. I would guess he thinks that home is a place where if you want something, you have to fight for it.

He needs to be happy, and he needs to realise that the happiness of the people in the house is connected. So if he’s happy, mum and dad are happy, and vice versa. Rather than thinking everything’s a battle.

Anyway – some people just wake early. Can you not give him something else to do in the morning? Books to read, or give him permission to go downstairs and watch a DVD or something? If I were wide awake I wouldn’t really want to be forced to lie in bed doing nothing either tbh.