Having had the afternoon to reflect I’ve decided to get a HT to replace my FS which finally died today. I’ve ridden FS since the my first Heckler in the 90’s and have only ridden a HT on a very limited basis prior to that although I/My wife had a 08 Chameleon for a few months that was stolen. For anyone who has made a similar move can you tell me the pros/cons? Not really into a HT vs FS debate just wondering if your riding style has to change much, I’m 40 will my back hate me etc.

Bike is likely to be some sort of burly HT.

Well I’m 42 and ride both. The HT is harder work and not as fast. But it’s more fun on smooth trails as it reacts more to input. I’d say you quickly get used to the tail end skipping and sliding around and enjoy it. Larger volume tyres and tubeless will help with comfort.

+1 Just done the same Jools, bought a Cotic BFe to replace two FS bikes. Rode SS HTs up to about 06ish but not ridden a geared HT for about 10 years. Looking forward to getting out on it – hoped to today but was missing one or two parts for the build.

I’m still convinced that a short travel FS is the fundamental bike for classic UK moorland riding (for me), but I’m open to changing my mind.

lol, im just thinking of digging out my old hardtail after 17 months of riding my full sus.. i guess it will be a little different to my usual comfy full sus… 😉

Try a 29er ? I gave up my FS last Autumn. Started with a 26″ Inbred, now trying a 29″ version. Erring towards the big wheels. Don’t knock till you’ve tried it…
Either way, steel ht fits my needs, love feeling the trail, bike just seems alive. FS feels bit dead now.

One tip, if it’s going to be your only bike, don’t be tempted to go too burly… A bit of extra weight is easily forgivable in a full sus bike, generaly cos it’s bringing the rider some comfort and control.

I’m not saying get a 20lb lightweight XC race machine, but keep it sub 30lb for sure. Too heavy and it’s just dead weight, and all the benefits of riding a hardtail are gone.

I’ve had a Cotic BFe for a few months now, built up strong. Pikes, Saint cranks, E13 guide with single 32T ring, 11-32 9spd out back, Wide rims, 2.35″ tyres, 28″ wide bars, 50mm stem etc. I’ll be honest and say it’s way too much, I don’t really appreciate it. When I’m riding it I’m either wishing I was on my 26lb hardtail (BFe weighs over 31 incidentally) as it’s much more lively, or I was on my long travel full sus bike that I nicked most of the parts off to build the BFe. The BFe is strong enough to survive a nuclear holocaust, but it’ll beat the crap out of me in the process!

As for other recommendations, big (but light) volume tyres run tubeless will aid comfort, don’t go too long on the suspension fork (120-130mm is more than long enough on a hardtail), light yet wide rims (Stans are good here) will help give the tyres a good profile but you don’t want too much weight for sure. Don’t go overkill on the brakes (unless you’re a BIG bloke), something like 180/160 front/rear on something like Shimano XT’s is plenty. Oh, and seeing as your BB isn’t moving up and down, and hence you’re a lot less likely to bash the chainrings on the floor, don’t underestimate the importance of running a triple chainring setup! Depends where you ride of course, but if you ride any road miles at all, a triple often makes sense still on a hardtail.

And FFS, DO NOT buy another Chameleon… Awesome frame as a play bike, but for an only bike? Harshest frame I’ve ever ridden! Brilliant handling, but 15 minutes on one nearly finished me off, and I’m 10 years younger than you! Look at the usual suspects here, Cotic Soul, Inbred 456, Genesis Altitude, Orange P7, Dialled PA etc…

Recently made the move back to hardtails after a long spell on full suss, marin attack trail,big hit,sx trail,glory,orange sub5,orange five, now on a cotic soul for trail duties and charge blender for general larking around (dh,trail,4x,dj etc).
I’ve had to modify my riding style which took a little time but the grin factor is highly addictive, my plan was to keep the five but it became an expensive ornament in the shed so i sold it and now have 2 tough, grin inducing hardtails. Agreed it’s not for everyone and there’s no doubting a fs is faster the majority of the time but for grin factor a tough hardtail is difficult to beat imo.

I do occasionally miss my Kona Coiler on some of the rougher trails and have to knock off some speed on the 456 to make sure I dont get kicked off by the rear wheel when it bucks up. Some trails would be faster if I could pedal through seated like I used to but on the whole I am as fast/faster than a lot of my riding companions on the HT when they are on their full suss. Downside- after 4hrs my back starts to feel it. Upside- no pivots to maintain/fret about.
Having said all that I will be buying an Orange 5 in a couple of years when I can afford it.

For the time being going to run 120mm Maguras and the rest of the stuff off my old bike which is all pretty decent quality. I’m a big guy about 16.5 so I’ll stick with the stuff I have that I know works. I have to say I’m not liking the sound of slower much – Tanking down stuff at full tilt is a bit essential for me. Hmmm maybe wise to have a couple of test rides I think.

joolsburger – Member

“I have to say I’m not liking the sound of slower much – Tanking down stuff at full tilt is a bit essential for me. Hmmm maybe wise to have a couple of test rides I think.”

It won’t neccesarily feel slower… Speed’s pretty relative.

10 years on an Orange Sub5.

One year on a Ragley Blue Pig.

Back protested at first, but has got used to it. Overall more than happy I made the move, very, very grin-inducing bike. And having to actually pick lines again is a revelation!

Since I ended up with enough spare parts to build another bike (just needed an Inbred frame) … the hardtail got ridden everywhere and full sus left behind, even though it was a “parts bin” bike.

that was a few years ago and m y bikes ahve developed into a full sus “uplift & Alps” bike and a hardtail for the UK.

Whilst full sus is nice, I don’t find much use for one in Blighty, generally

Just made the switch after spending years riding FS and singing it’s praises, started to feel it was a skill compensator so moved to a cotic soul and frankly wow ! Loving it more than ever really re ignited my passion for riding. As for the speed issues, I think this is relative frankly, ok if you had a speedo your top speed wouldn’t match that of a FS but as the riding is more involving you have as much fun! I rode at Woburn the weekend and not the xc and loved every bit of it. certainly teaches you to ride smooth again

Another thing to consider is that you need to choose your lines a bit better, you can’t get away with hammering over stuff like you do on a FS bike – well, you can to a certain extent, but not as much. You might also want to run tubeless, at least on the back, as you’ll be pinch flatting all over the place until you’ve got the hang of it again.

Hi Jools, I was in exactly the same situation this time last year. I would say the Mboy hits the nail right on the head with this comments:

One tip, if it’s going to be your only bike, don’t be tempted to go too burly…

Part of the appeal for making this transition should be the agility, lightness of touch and feedback you get from a well balanced hard tail. Something that weighs over 32lbs is going to feel ‘dead’ in comparison to even a 28lb hard tail.

The good news is that it’s not hard to get even a Cotic BFe or Dialled Alpine, both of which could handle full DH runs in the alps, to weigh 28lbs and something like a Cotic Soul will be a pound less automatically. BTW I have a more or less new Alpine for sale on eBay if you’re interested mail me and I will send you a link.

What I gained from the transition was a huge sense of fun; a feeling of speed without there being any impending danger (because you are going slower); I had to relearn some skills but having ridden a hard tail from 1991 to 2004, those skills came back pretty quickly and you will be amazed at what you can end up doing on a hard tail. You will refine your skills at carrying speed over terrain, using undulations to pick more speed up and using your body more effectively as a shock absorber. All of this will then make you even quicker on your full suss. It’s hugely rewarding but seriously take heed of MBoy’s comments because there really is something in them.

Don’t do it your back will suffer 😀

Always ridden a FS since I started riding mtb about 6 years ago, bought a hardtail at the start of the year and things I have noticed are: Pedalling, even though there appeared to be no bob on the FS on the HT I am having to push much bigger gears as higher cadences make me bounce up and down in the saddle, back has not given me any jip (am 42), requires a bit more weight shifting to maintain traction/grip etc. Not ridden the FS since early Jan so need to get back on it this week so it doesn’t feel to alien when I ride it.

I mainly ride a FS now and have a Klein hardtail circa 2000 which hasnt been out much due to the fact that the suspension seat post gave up.

HT’s feel much more alive, more flickable, instant power. However I wouldnt even consider riding one these days without a suspension seat post.

I made the switch to my main bike being a HT about 4 years ago , I got a second hand Orange P7 and just used the better quality bits from my FS bike (that would fit) , It weighs just over 28lb

It is slower but not massively slower , I still keep up with my mates and they still can’t catch me on descents (not suggesting I’m a DH god here).

I like to have both but my FS is a spesh SX with a tough build so it just creeps over 35lb which gets a bit too much after about 20 miles.

Went back to a hardtail for mountain duties in 2004 after years of full suss. Loved it, especially the reliability and simplicity. It really gets you back to thinking about technique to carry speed. Sadly had to go back to full suss again last year after after a back virus damaged some of my back muscles and it couldn’t take the Stiffee anymore…….shame.

I found when I got my Inbred last year that I was tired out a lot quicker on the HT, than the full sus.
I think it’s ‘cos of the amount of time on the HT you spend hovering over the saddle or just plain stood up, whereas on the FS you stay seated and let the suspension take the sting out.

It’s great once you have a few rides to get used to it, as it feels like you are actually doing yourself more good on the HT (so long as your back doesn’t get too pounded).
Definitely made me realise that I probably needed to do more core strength stuff too.

Not really into a HT vs FS debate just wondering if your riding style has to change much, I’m 40 will my back hate me etc.

My take, as someone who rides both, is pretty similar to geetee’s – there are places where you just can’t go as outright fast on a hardtail as on a full susser, simply because the rear end will start to kick about, but on the plus side, you crash slower when you do crash, things arguably feel more vivid and you have to think harder about lines.

There are also places where a full susser is faster because well set up rear suspension means you can pedal or pedal harder over uneven surfaces.

I’d also echo what a couple of people have said about weight and not going over the top – my Blue Pig weighed around the same as my Pace RC405 – around 30lb or so, both built quite sturdy – and even with the same tyres, the Pig always felt slower rolling. I ended up selling it and building something closer to 26lb and it’s so much sharper and nicer to ride, everywhere, not just on climbs btw. Accelerates so much more quickly, feels more alive. Lovely.

As far as your back goes, that’s all down to you and whether you have a bad back or not. I’ve never found it an issue, but if you suffer from chronic back pain, it may be one for you. If you have back issues, maybe time to look at more general physiology and bike set-up in particular?

I have no back problems at all so I expect I’ll be fine. Frankly the vast majority of my riding is in the SE and so I think a HT will be absolutley fine. Still faancy a heckler though, old habits eh..

after riding mainly full-sus for years, I’m now exclusively riding a Ti 29er hardtail, and my uber-bling (Blur LTc) full-sus is gathering dust, to the point where I’m *almost* considering selling it. The big wheels seem to take the edge off things a bit, and I guess Ti helps, but just yesterday I rode Afan W2 and Skyline back to back on the 29er (singlespeed), about 7 hours of riding, and it was pefectly comfortable. I’m kind of wondering what I need the full sus for now. Oh, and I’m 39, no back problems (yet!).

what about the on-one ti 456 – the back end is suppossed to be qute compliant so won’t buck around so much on the downs.

I spent many years riding a hardtail and while it’s just different.

2 or so years ago I bought a Yeti ASR and loved it as there are sections of our local route that I can ride so much faster – like a ploughed field, but I then re-rode the old hardtail and re-discovered the reconnected feel it has.

This has prompted me to buy a new HT frame and build it up. Some bits I’ll go faster on, some slower, some I’ll have to stand more. It’s just different and you need to adjust how you ride to the bike.

Either way you’ll end up a better rider.

The satisfaction from smoking overbiked riders on DH’s will have you grinning for weeks…

Can I recommend a onone 456 carbon lovely bike to ride and will take upto a 160mm fork I am sure you wont be disapointed.

The Southern Yeti – Member

“The satisfaction from smoking overbiked riders on DH’s will have you grinning for weeks…”

Til some **** overtakes you on a rigid

Who said mine isn’t rigid?

Some very good answers on this thread.

“I’m not liking the sound of slower much”

You’ll feel you’re going faster. The upper speed limit is down to how well you cope when the tail-end goes jiggy. You make it intact to the bottom with throbbing legs, pounding heart and bulging eyes – fantastic.

So now onto the meat of this. Because this is a foray into something that I may decide against I think I’m going to go SH on something like a Soul or Pace RC or new on something like an NS surge or a 456.

So the riding I like is almost entirely singletrack some jumps but nothing massive just popping off stuff here and there and the odd drop, nothing huge just what I need to to get to the next bit of singletrack. Also do the odd trip to Wales etc. I’m 5 11, 16.5 stone and sturdy not plump, I tend to push bigger gears. Going to run a triple, 120mm forks and very, very strong wheels.

What’s going to work, anything to avoid?

Also had nearly 10 years on a sub5 .
For my 40th bday i got a p7 and the sub 5 didn’t get another look in and I sold it.
I now ride everything as badly on the p7 that I used to on my sub 5.
😀
On the odd long lakes ride i have missed the 5 occasionally
(back ache/creaking bike etc),
but like others have said , you get used to it/toughen up.
I wouldn’t change back.

It’s hugely rewarding but seriously take heed of MBoy’s comments because there really is something in them.

OMG

Somebody actually paid attention to the BS coming out of my mouth for once!!! 😉

Sorry, couldn’t resist… It’s not often people actually listen to my advice anyway…

In all seriousness though, I’ve been riding for 16 years now, I’ve owned probably 20-25 MTB’s in that time, usually at least 2 at any one time, and always had a mix of full sus and hardtails. EVERY hardtail that I’ve gone down the route of overbuilding it (heavy wheels, big forks, massive brakes, DH tyres etc.) I’ve always ended up stripping and selling, or rebuilding with lighter kit, after just a few short rides. I’ve always found that the key to a good hardtail is one that feels alive, ready for action, reacts to every minute input and root/rock on the trail if you will. If they’re too heavy, you get none of this, and it feels like you’re riding round on a well specced supermarket special!

Conversely, I’ve often ended up beefing up most of the full sus bikes I have owned! Maybe it’s just that they often enable you to get into more trouble, more quickly, or that with some suspension both ends it feels nicer/better to have a bit more weight behind the bike to make it feel more stable. I don’t know! But it’s what suits me anyway…

I’ve just made exactly the same transition (from a 2009 Enduro to an Inbred with 100mm).

It’s much zippier up climbs (they tell you this).

It’s also much zippier on flat singletrack (I didn’t expect this). On my FS flat singletrack was as much of a drag as climbing. On a hardtail you can actually build up some flow.

It sucks on the descents compared to my enduro though. I love that on my Enduro I can use the entire trail and surrounding features as effectively a giant launchpad, use trees as berms or lips, just whatever works really. On a hardtail basically the only line is “around the roots”.

Mboy
And FFS, DO NOT buy another Chameleon… Awesome frame as a play bike, but for an only bike? Harshest frame I’ve ever ridden! Brilliant handling, but 15 minutes on one nearly finished me off

Lets not forget you are probably the girliest mtber I have ever met 😉

I’ve spent the last two years gurning round on a singlespeeded (sped?) 456, whilst my 5spot languishes, hanging from a hook, part stripped, like a side of Parma ham.

Originally riding the HT was from necessity – easier to maintain, cheaper to run, stripped the 5spot to sell all the nice gear, but it very soon became my preference, simply because the ride was more invigorating and ‘vivid’.

I can’t really say anything further than Geetee, BWD and Mboy, with the point about weight being a really big factor (much to my surprise). Infact, I’ve moved from a 27.5lb 456 to a 22lb 456 and its vastly better for it, without being a spastic bambi, even at my 14st weight.

I have a compressed L5-S1 disc. It gives me trouble, but on the hardtail, my core strength and balance have improved, whilst my backpain has markedly reduced. Recently I’ve been riding the FS again and I’ve noticed I’m riding better on it than I remember – I’m pretty certain its down to the 2 years on the HT.

(Mr MC posting)

gave up hardtails in 2004 due to spine problem. Got a 456 in 2010 as a tentative toe in the HT water with a largely recovered back. Loved it, probably ridden it more than my FS (was a Nomad) and as a self confessed bike tart have replaced it with a Dialled Alpine purely for the pimp value of 853 steel (grew riding when 853 was what titanium/carbon is now so a bit of juvenile wish fulfilment).

Probably not much lighter than the FS (5.5lb frame) but is a total hoot to ride and does feel faster in singletrack (whether thats real or perceived is largely irrelevant).

I can afford to have both, and wouldnt get rid of the FS, but youll see plenty of “since I bought such-and-such HT I never ride the FS” posts on here (like scienceofficer’s). Riding both is good for technique, HT’s make you choose a line more finely, FS gives you confidence to hit technical sections quicker.

@Pedalhead – What 29 Ti have you got? Very tempted to switch from 26 to 29

+1 for what mboy said.

I have been forced into riding my Genesis again after issues with the Bfe, and am suddenly realising how overbiked I am with the Bfe and its Fox 36 forks…