Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 190 total)
  • Handy pasteable letter/email to your MP to vote against Brexit. 5 min job.
  • CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, not everyone is entitled to have that opinion taken seriously

    Four legs good……

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    The UK joined for trading not for handing over sovereignty, and definitely not to be ruled over by unelected self-serving cretins. And still you fools bleat on about democracy after losing a democratic vote. If it wasn’t so pathetic it would be funny.

    Go any actual examples?
    Or is that just the slogan again?
    and how when we get away from that with out pay to trade, accept free movement, no seat at the table solution?

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, not everyone is entitled to have that opinion taken seriously
    Four legs good.

    See, like making that comment without considering the associated article.

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    ninfan
    Free Member

    I’m not sure of this, there is a degree of culpability to ignorance, i don’t mean stupidity, i mean a reluctance or refusal to engage with the information available.

    How about if they mistrust the information being provided? For example if the people providing the information have a stake in the outcome, or are outright biased by the nature of their employment or even just their own beliefs? If you think that there were many, or even any, truly impartial representations of information out there in the referendum then you must be utterly hatstand.

    Rather than being reluctant or refusing to engage with the information provided, I would suggest that a large proportion of the electorate very much engaged with it, and dismissed is credibility as they believed it to be biased, fear mongering, partial and aimed at manipulating their vote towards a desired outcome.

    If you spend decades serving the public up with a bowl of shit and continually swear blind that its chocolate ice cream, then don’t act surprised when at some point they finally cotton on and throw it back in your face.

    Del
    Full Member

    charlie – your link is borked.
    yer tis

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    So, enfht, as above. What do you expect or imagine will happen now to improve our lives?

    and to what extent do you think the likely leaders post-brexit will be less cretinous or self serving than the people to whom you refer?
    Who are the people you call unelected?
    Which ‘rules’ do you actually object to?

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    How about if they mistrust the information being provided? For example if the people providing the information have a stake in the outcome, or are outright biased by the nature of their employment or even just their own beliefs? If you think that there were many, or even any, truly impartial representations of information out there in the referendum then you must be utterly hatstand.

    Rather than being reluctant or refusing to engage with the information provided, I would suggest that a large proportion of the electorate very much engaged with it, and dismissed is credibility as they believed it to be biased, fear mongering, partial and aimed at manipulating their vote towards a desired outcome.

    this is where reasoning and rationalisation come in. of course there were no impartial sources, but that is why you have to make an informed decision form information and data from a number of sources

    molgrips
    Free Member

    First thing you could educate people on is how to spot a biased newspaper article or media piece.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The UK joined for trading not for handing over sovereignty

    It never handed over sovereignty. It handed over some power.

    And you do that to get the benefits – we all do it, day in day out. Fact of life. It’s like paying taxes – it’s necessary.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    First thing you could educate people on is how to spot a biased newspaper article or media piece.

    Yes, the same way we analyse text in English Lit. or even when we decide whether or not something we read on the web is credible

    colournoise
    Full Member

    enfht – Member
    The UK joined for trading not for handing over sovereignty, and definitely not to be ruled over by unelected self-serving cretins.

    Like those who ratify our home grown, control reclaimed, laws?

    ninfan
    Free Member

    of course there were no impartial sources, but that is why you have to make an informed decision form information and data from a number of sources

    But you seem to dismiss the possibility that people did just that, based purely upon the fact that the majority came to a different conclusion to the one you did.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    First thing you could educate people on is how to spot a biased newspaper article or media piece.

    Next you could put completely impartial leaflets though their doors, telling them about the advantages and drawbacks…

    It never handed over sovereignty. It handed over some power.

    You could argue that it was never theirs to give in the first place

    And the people just took it back 😈

    Ro5ey
    Free Member

    Just started my letter by changing the MPs details ….

    Dear Mr Pickles

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Dave
    Free Member

    And the people just took it back

    Yeah, that just happened 🙄

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    And you do that to get the benefits – we all do it, day in day out. Fact of life. It’s like paying taxes tariffs.

    Sauce for the goose…

    chum3
    Free Member

    Rather than being reluctant or refusing to engage with the information provided, I would suggest that a large proportion of the electorate very much engaged with it, and dismissed is credibility as they believed it to be biased, fear mongering, partial and aimed at manipulating their vote towards a desired outcome.

    Hence why the ‘we’ve had enough of experts’ line was so damaging. It gave people permission to hold a position that was based on gut feel / fear / myths rather than trying to understand the more nuanced reality.

    Equally, people are not rational – or – one person’s view on what’s rational is not the same as the other.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    EU Pop Quiz
    Sovereignty
    How many countries has the UK invaded since joining the EU
    How many prisoners did the UK specially rendition for the USA
    How many times did the UK do stuff to hurt it’s most vunerable citizens

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    But you seem to dismiss the possibility that people did just that, based purely upon the fact that the majority came to a different conclusion to the one you did.

    Not at all, I did say that this applies to both sides. Bit let us not forget that organisations such as the UK statistics authority refuted some of the financial claims being made before the referendum. Particularly the NHS one, so impartial information was available.

    StefMcDef
    Free Member

    and definitely not to be ruled over by unelected self-serving cretins.

    No, you’re quite right. There’s no need to outsource that when we’re so spectularly good at it ourselves:

    Solo
    Free Member

    Amused at the suggestion to contact a democratically elected representative. Asking them to overturn/ignore the result of a democratically voted referendum.

    It would appear that the regressive lefties and those with their heads buried deep into the sand. Haven’t given this brexit business too much thought.

    Here’s something to consider.

    Brexit did us all a favour. If remain had been the result of the referendum. How do you think leave-sters would have voted at any opportunity in the future?

    Thats right, the leave-sters may have felt inclined to vote even further to the right.

    Do remainistas really want Nigel in No10?
    I don’t, which is why I hope parliament respects the vote result and gets on with the job.

    Alternatively. If we’re not going to respect the result of the vote.
    Can we re-run last Saturday’s lottery, because my numbers didn’t come up and I’m due a jackpot win.
    🙄

    superleggero
    Free Member

    To add some flesh to the CharlieMungus post above where he says: ‘Bit let us not forget that organisations such as the UK statistics authority refuted some of the financial claims being made before the referendum. Particularly the NHS one, so impartial information was available.’

    …The Head of UK Statistics Authority rebukes Leave campaign for £350m per week claim (twice):

    >> 21st April 2016 – https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Letter-from-Sir-Andrew-Dilnot-to-Norman-Lamb-MP-210416.pdf
    >>and 27th May 2016 – https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/news/uk-statistics-authority-statement-on-the-use-of-official-statistics-on-contributions-to-the-european-union/
    >>and widespread media coverage e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/27/uk-statistics-chief-vote-leave-350m-figure-misleading

    They leave campaign repeated the message despite this. There should have been an independent mechanism that applied to all sides akin to advertising standards. BTW I accept there may have been similar cases on the remain side, which should have had similar treatment.

    Without truth the system is deeply flawed.

    [EDIT – with working links now]

    molgrips
    Free Member

    You could argue that it was never theirs to give in the first place

    You’d be wrong though.

    People don’t run the country, never have. They vote for a government to do it for them.

    Can we re-run last Saturday’s lottery, because my numbers didn’t come up and I’m due a jackpot win.

    If there was a referendum to nuke Russia and they voted yes, would you just shrug your shoulders, say ‘that’s democracy’ and say your goodbyes?

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Solo, what colour of unicorn is parliament supposed to be catching for you?

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Hell yeah!

    BillMC
    Full Member

    I can’t remember a political issue where there was so much misinformation and failures to engage with the evidence. People I’ve spoken to seem to have voted for issues that were not on the agenda. What was seemingly on the agenda quickly became a false prospectus. Now, because of a sense of embarrassment or whatever, people (including a local Tory councillor I spoke to last night) are making light of the idea of negative growth and a 6-10 year recession.
    The markets will not make light of that. Already on here you’ve got engineering and building workers talking of cancelled jobs and recruitment freezes, Philip Green is already putting up prices before the price tags have been changed, oil will be up (followed by gas and electricity), food up, unemployment up, etc etc. Living standards and wellbeing for most people: down. Opportunities for shock doctrine privatizations and hostile takeovers: many.

    Dorset_Knob
    Free Member

    Quite right. We can’t have hoi polloi having a say in anything.

    We have our say at general elections: we elect people to make decisions on our behalf. That’s how it works.

    The referendum we’ve just had wasn’t an act of democracy; it was an ill-conceived and poorly executed vanity project that badly backfired. It should never have happened.

    Now we need our democratically-elected parliament to pull itself together, step up and have the balls to say that the populace was misled and the referendum result should not be acted upon.

    corroded
    Free Member

    Quite right. We can’t have hoi polloi having a say in anything.

    On the other hand, you would never ask your plumber how to rewire a space shuttle. Especially if presented with a manual full of inaccuracies and missing most of the pages.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    I can’t remember a political issue where there was so much misinformation and failures to engage with the evidence.

    The Scottish Referendum was a close second – possibly a precursor.

    #posttruthpolitics

    chakaping
    Free Member

    And still no leavers here are offering any reasons to push the button, beyond that 52%/48% vote.

    yunki
    Free Member

    At the risk of sounding a bit (ok a lot) Hitlery..

    Is there nothing we can do to reduce the impact of the ignorant and belligerent on society? I mean.. these **** idiots are actually breeding and raising children, it’s not exactly good for evolution is it.. ?

    We now have a fairly clear idea of where they are, and how many of them there are (about 52% of the turnout)

    Obviously no-one’s going ahead with Brexit cos it’s daft, but could we not be prioritising the building of a giant cannon* to fire Brexit voters into space? Once that’s done we can all have a good laugh, breath a collective sigh of relief and go back to living like normal civilised human beings

    *if we get enough velocity they’ll burn up as they exit the atmosphere which should provide us with a nice celebratory firework display

    Matt24k
    Free Member

    That “2% margin” equates to a majority. It really is a simple as that. Even the intellectuals on here should be able to get their heads around the basic maths. I’m pretty sure all the supposed Neanderthals that voted out can tell you that 51.9% is more than 48.1%
    By all means write to your MP. If you have time you could also drop a note to EUFA asking them to reverse the result of the England v Iceland game because you didn’t like that either.

    yunki
    Free Member

    see?

    see what I mean?
    What use is that pillock to the future of mankind?

    Not only is his grasp of democracy really shit.. he can’t even write an original joke ffs!!

    D0NK
    Full Member

    …I hope parliament respects the vote result and gets on with the job.

    I don’t like the idea of ignoring the voters but the exit looks like it’ll be a right balls up. However it would also appear that a lot of exiters weren’t fully aware of the repercussions/barefaced lies and aren’t impressed by the furious backpedalling* done by various exit campaigners since the result. So a “do over” may have a very different result. A second ref does sound silly but “it was just a protest vote, I didn’t think it’d end up like this” is not a phrase I want to hear echoing around the country for the next 5-10 years.

    Dunno, all options looking bleak at the moment

    *how much backpedalling remainers would have done I dunno.

    Dorset_Knob
    Free Member

    the basic maths

    … are mere maths. And the referendum result advisory. It advises us that if you make people stupid through decades of poor education and Murdoch’s press machine, then ask them a stupid question, you will get a stupid answer.

    See Yunki’s points above for detailed analysis of that 😉

    Dorset_Knob
    Free Member

    A second ref does sound silly

    We don’t need a second referendum.

    We didn’t need the first one, either, but the results of that can legally be handled in parliament.

    Perhaps we need a single-issue general election. But the political parties all seem too busy bitching at themselves, sadly.

    Dorset_Knob
    Free Member

    Yunki has a point I think.

    At some stage, someone needs to say “Actually, your opinion, based as it is on ignorance and prejudice, is not worth as much as you think it is”.

    Partly I blame the internet, for allowing ignorant people to proclaim as loudly as the educated.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    And I would bet good money that at the inevitable general election, the right will still be banging the drum on immigration.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    I think the challenge here is an educational one. There are many who do not see the relationship between what is taught at school and everyday life. This may well be largely due to what is taught in school. When mathematics can focus on the chances of pulling a red pencil from a pencil case, when you are not looking rather than say, the chances of catching and STI when you are 18. people will not see it as a real world subject which has any relevance to their lives and so lose it as an everyday tool. When people learn to critique books which are not the kind they read, but don’t learn to apply that same criticality to a variety of media sources, it’s because they have not seen that they are the same thing and are in fact interesting and useful instruments. Many numbers and percentages were thrown around in the run up to the referendum , but folks were not statistically or numerically literate enough to make sense of them, perhaps because they were not told in school that these were precisely the problems that mathematics would help them to understand. And that’s just maths, the same goes for history / politics geography. This stuff is important, but we don’t demonstrate that in schools

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    I’m pretty sure all the supposed Neanderthals that voted out can tell you that 51.9% is more than 48.1

    Sure, but how many could tell me if that was a statistically significant difference or if inferential statistics would be appropriate in this case?

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 190 total)

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