did you just say prototype subzero? do tell? PHOTOS!!! 😀

I think it'll be interesting, and it's a thought experiment that I've had in the past, but thought that it'd be quite expensive, and that if there was an obvious advantage, a manufacturer would have done it by now.

The thing that made me feel it was probably a no-goer were the frictional losses, didn't know about the one to one ratios, and agreed that wouldn't be so bad, but it's not always hills that knacker you out. If you're having to work twice as hard to keep up with your friends on the flats, then that's going to piss you off fairly quickly.

BTW, not trying ot piss on your chips, go for it and then we'll know what the truth is rather than idle speculation.

and that if there was an obvious advantage, a manufacturer would have done it by now.

i disagree
either the deraileur system was conceived as perfect from the start
or
manufacturers and people just like to go with what they know works

I want one even more now, wonder how much i could sell the missus for ❓

But if you actually look at the ratios, in the lower hammertime gear (1:1, no significant losses as far as I can see as there's nothing moving inside the HS as it's locked solid) with an alfine, you could be running quite a reasonable gear – say 24 HS gear with a 20T sprocket and top gear on the Alfine (1.615:1) is a ratio of 1.94 which is the equivalent of 32/16.5 which is almost exactly what most SSers ride so presumably not all that bad on the flat most of the time (at least that's my experience).

PS Psycle – can you make sure you post back on here when you've got it all together?

Oh yes, definitely let us know.

psycle- it'll be a LOT heavier than a normal derailleur set up. An Alfine is already heavier (about 1590g, compared to a normal drivetrain of about 1200g), and a Hammerschmidt set up is another 1600g (compared to SLX at about 950g)- that's 2lbs extra weight (claimed- switching from a Rohloff to XT/Race Face saved me 4lbs)and the drag is quite soul sapping at times, though at others you'd never know.

it'll be a LOT heavier than a normal derailleur set up

1-2kg isn't going to kill me, I'm certainly no weight weenie or XC race whippet (I could easily lose 10kg just off my own lard ass 🙂 ) Light(ish) wheels are more important in the big scheme of things aren't they, from my understanding of these things it's rotational mass that you really feel?

yeah but psycle there is a growing obsession on here about explaining to everyone how you got your 6 inch all mountain bombproof trail muncher under 22.5lbs

meh… not in my house 🙂 I'll be happy if this bike comes in at around about 25lbs, which I think it will (it's a hardtail btw, 4.5lbs frame)

just ordered the crankset and shifter from the States, £300 all in (my mate is bringing it over for me, hopefully she dodges customs, though I've told her to take it all out of it's packaging and pass it off as 2nd hand if they do ask questions…) Should be here first week of September… now I just need to order a BB and find a shop in London that has the specific facing tool… anyone got any ideas on this?

Bah… just found out that NO store in London has the specific ISCG/BB facing tool (checked with Fisher Outdoor direct), closest store is Leisure Lakes in Daventry… the tool costs £210 so I can see why not many stores have one, I'm guessing it's not the most frequently used tool in the box 🙄

So, looks like I'll have to take a drive up to Daventry and get them to fit the thing… no biggie, but slightly inconvenient :lOl:

psychle

Please post here what is the cost of facing the frame with that HS facing tool. I am thinking about one of those mid next year so I have to calculate facing the frame into the total cost.
Cheers

Fly in the ointment time, just tried fitting one to an Orange Alpine 160 yesterday and it's a different ISCG fitting, Hammerschmidts will only fit 03/05 ISCG according to Fishers, nothing else.

Pretty sure that is the case… 03/05 ICSG only, how do you tell the difference btw? didn't think to check that properly 😳

Coatesy, they're quoting me £45 but that includes fitting it as well… seems a little expensive perhaps?

Much larger diameter bolt circle diameter on 03/05 than on the Alpine I worked on, these were very close to the BB shell, needed to be about 10mm further out.
£45 to face BB and mount, measure up and shim out mounts seems a reasonable price, check out the instructions on SRAM's own website and see what's involved.

I think thats very fair. You want them to use their specialist tools and labour to set up a product you didnt buy from them. Not unreasonable at all.

Or you could buy the tool for £210.

If you'd bought it from them, whats the cost vs the issues with warranty, (ie sister/friend buys it, in another country) and possible import dutiesas well as the increase in fitting, and driving to Daventry and risking a wasted journey if there are issues fitting?

you can get facing tools a lot cheaper than that

I think thats very fair. You want them to use their specialist tools and labour to set up a product you didnt buy from them. Not unreasonable at all.

Wasn't been narky about it, was just a query 🙂

f you'd bought it from them, whats the cost vs the issues with warranty

Buying in the UK would be £500-£520 just for the cranks, then £40+ for the shifter and £40+ for the BB (so around £600). I've got the crank & shifter for £300, unfortunately they were out of stock on the BB otherwise I would've got that for an extra £20 as well… Fingers crossed my friend doesn't get hit with customs when she comes through LHR, but even if she does, it should only be another £45 or so (right?), so that's £345 vs £545+ = minimum £200 savings…

I don't know if Leisure Lakes would've fitted it for free if I'd bought it from them, maybe they would've, who knows… As for warranty, I've done a fair bit of research and I haven't really heard of anyone (touch wood) having to make a claim… so hopefully that won't be an issue either 🙂

Face it, UK prices are a real rip off 🙄 😆

Apologies, the written language fails to convey correct tone under my fingertips. I wasn't meaning to be an arsehole.

no worries 🙂 still wasn't being narky 😉

aye you were! fight?

(loads of they wee faces inserted here like this one :-))

the faces are important 🙂 😆 😉 🙄 😀