Adam I can forecast/plan using Excel vlookups/macros etc, work out margins, markup, shipping/leadtimes, pricing etc. I also did 3yrs+ on a shopfloor (which I loved). It wasn’t selling nice bikes though but I still liked it. I love the retail trade 🙂

and trust me, not all LBS’s are the same!

I know. When you find a good one/experience it makes handing over money painless (and I’m a yorkshireman so I know this pain..)

Ahh okay, cheers Adam I didn’t realise 🙂

Many thanks for taking the time to explain.

But did you do your 3+ years in a rubbish shop? 😛

Coming soon to a street corner near you

Hello Sir you are 6ft5 and need bike size advice? I recommend a medium 8)

I’ve been looking for a decent one to work in for 11 years 😕

Rorschach – Member
I’ve been looking for a decent one to work in for 11 years

On the strength of knowing where you’ve worked…

Hahahahahahaha buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!

Love you too Ad 😉

A good LBS is very hard to find.
I know of a bike shop that offers superb service to regulars – but will bleed a new customer dry the first few times they visit.
Very strange practice.

Using any LBS is the very last option for me.
Had more bad experiences using them than good.

The LBS we use (not so local its a two hour drive away) is brilliant. The don’t charge labour for parts that you’ve bought from them. They’re always happy to look at a problem before charging you the earth, not that they do that anyway, I’ve always been pleasantly surprised by any bill. They always give me a great deal on bikes and kit.

Having heard from a new friend yesterday of his nightmare experience when purchasing a bike in a shop five miles from my house (a shop that I’ve heard rave reviews of but not had a pleasant experience myself), I’m very glad to have my relationship with my preferred LBS.

Ask questions beforehand about what you are paying for and set your expectations about what you are likely to get. Value means different things for different people, work out what your own level is where you think you’ve got value out of the transaction and stick to that.

Maybe that’s your problem using A/B/C.Stick to one.My LBS is Ace.Yes somethings are more expensive than on-line but swings and rounabouts.Cant get a good cup of TEA on-line. 😀

Interesting comments on RRP and fitting. My LBS would not charge you fitting on a £250 seatpost (at RRP.)
That’s what you are paying for. If you have a service and need new brake pads, they charge you RRP but no fitting.
Differing pricing models I guess.

running a successful LBS is very difficult at the moment

not that this makes any excuse for bad customer service, or a customer having a bad experience in that store

to put it in a nutshell; bike and apparel manufacturers are more than keen to sell their goods directly to cash-flush on-line retailers, bypassing established in-country distributors who traditionally sell on to retailers.

This ‘vertical’ retail (stripping out the middleman i.e. distributor) means that the “cost” the on-line retailer pays for their ex-factory goods are typically, considerably lower than the “trade” price the retailer pays for goods bought on credit from the distributor.

This is obviously happening in many retail channels, not just bicycles. The internet has created an un-seen level of “transparency” for consumers, but has reinforced the mindset of “knowing the price of everything, knowing the value of nothing” among consumers.

Levels of showrooming and price matching are excessive in the LBS and the chain retailers at the moment, its very tricky to turn a profit let alone break even. Some manage better than others, as an example Evans Cycles made a reported £3 million profit last year on over £100 million of turnover.

Its very easy to sell something for nothing, any mug can discount their stock to “price match” massive on-line retailers, and then offer to “fit for free”.

This actually leads to making a profit loss on that sale, although it helps cashflow when suppliers need paying and the payroll bill is due.

Slowly bleeding to death, is not good business….

Interesting times in retail in general, especially in the bike trade, which is almost unique in selling a product that requires assembly before sale, often requires fitting to the customer during the sale, and is a product that wears out as its used, requiring regular servicing and parts replacement.

Many LBS and chain retailers have a very loose grip or no clarity on the hourly operating “cost” of their workshop. Labour is never “free”, incredibly important when you factor in the costs of setting up and tooling a quality workshop and employing time served, certified mechanics.

Its also a very technical trade to work in, which is hugely underestimated by those outside the trade; which makes it difficult to find experienced staff, especially when the relatively low wages and seasonal trade flucation are taken into account.

I’ve always been super lucky with LBSs. Admittedly I do spend stupid amounts of money in them which I am sure helps but my current LBS gives me 20% discount and an account so I can pay off things like with credit cards and they work hard to get me good deals on stuff. They are currently trying to secure a new carbon cyclo cross bike with all the top stuff for over half the RRP because it’s ex demo for me! I do also ride for the shop team which also helps.

What do you lbsers do when asked “what size bike should I buy?”

I sometimes try “are you planning to buy one here?”

Had a woman come in to get fitted out for a saddle (on our SBC ass o meter) “just to see”.

Previously had a guy say, when told I didn’t have five-tens, “where can I try some on? I only want to get the size right so I can buy them online”

Esher shore, evans is a bad example. They are private equity owned. A certain portion of those £100m sales may go in ‘royalty payments’ or other payments etc.

Their model may be about soaking up all a customers business. Ringfencing their spend.

Price match is offered because alot of customers wont notice it, some will and some will feel reassured, some will feel too embarrased to ask, or cant do with the hassle and a few will always check and ask for it. It a powerful marketing tool. You may end up with too many though in which case you add in lots of caveats… Innertube brands that only you stock, exact model year, plain refusal etc.

I remember a conversation with someone who owned a bike brand once. He wasnt aware of someones retail prices and was surprised by how much that importer and distributor charged. Very surprised esher shore.

What do you lbsers do when asked “what size bike should I buy?”

A good solution I’ve heard is to make up your own sizing system. “Ah, sir, looks like a 87 furtle frame is the perfect size for you.” Or instead of calling them Small, Medium and Large, call them Eric, Ernie and Ethel. Or call them Small, Medium and Large, but not in the correct order.

Or, and I just thought of this one, get a paternmaker’s ruler – it measures in inches but not the same inches as everyone else uses.

LBS are between a rock and a hard place really. Experienced cyclists will be reluctant to pay anything and will compare against the best price they can get online. Which leaves them with the Cycle to work refugees that have conned the tax out of their bike purchase but have an expectation they need to get it ‘serviced’ – this is now bread and butter.

But LBS is a tough place with things like labour and overheads and they don’t always get the same distributor deals that CRC can get, but there is also a niche customers who think they can try at LBS and buy online.

They are a dying breed – particularly the good ones, and having tried Evans online service recently they havent a clue and the friendly, marginally more expensive service from LBS needs to be preserved and I’ll use wherever I hit issues, I’m happy to do so. Shout out to Stirling Bike Repairs who can provide a friendly experienced service and will continue to do so if you are a regular customer who might not buy from them because they are out of stock.

The scurge of LBS is the alternative experience from another LBS:
Customer ‘I’ve snapped my chain on a ride to work, can you help?’
LBS – ‘Certainly we can book it in a week on Tuesday’
Customer ‘Do you have a chain I can buy and chain splitter?’
LBS – ‘Sorry, no’

What do you lbsers do when asked “what size bike should I buy?”

(I have genuinely heard this one!)
“Well, I’m going to buy online and thought you could help me get the size right”

My reply? “No.”

What do you lbsers do when asked “what size bike should I buy?”

My standard answer was whatever size felt best. You can try to explain that, but more often than not it’s a waste of time. Your average 5’10 customer will be in between sizes on most manufactures size charts, some will think they are 6’1. The “guy who used to race dh/dj/bmx back in the day” will be convinced he wants a smaller frame so he can “throw it about” . The XC rider looking to branch out likes to stretch out etc etc….

How about getting emailed a link to a CRC groupset builder and getting asked to fill it in so they get the right bits for their bike 🙂

I work in my local shop as a mechanic and shop assistant, i usually don’t charge as much as i should (not my decision really), if it was my decision on prices i’d at least charge a little less or give discounts to make people want to come back as well as trying to give customer service etc. I enjoy talking to people and suggesting things, it’s a cafe too so get all kinds of folk in which is interesting.

Assuming discounts will make people come back is a dangerous game – on its own, that strategy can mean you’re in a race to the bottom against any cheaper outlets.

True, but in many ways i’d hope it was through satisfaction and customer service.

I’m trying to actively use my LBS (Sunset Cycles, Cardiff) more at the moment. They’re really good to deal with, they must be to put up with me!! Bought my last bike from them despite me having a better price offered at another (only £30 lower) but I know they’ll look after me if I need any warranty work doing. Never had a reason to complain about any work they’ve done for me (from a bike check to full wheel builds) and they don’t rip you off with huge labour rates. Their prices aren’t stupid either, usually close to CRC etc without any discount. Full of useful advice and never feels like a chore to buy from there. I’m probably one of those customers that makes them hide upon seeing me walk in the door but it never shows!!

Good bike shops are out there, you just have to find them!

True story:
Bloke come into the shop and asks to try on some shoes
I get some shoes, and as I’m getting them out of the box he says he’s going to get the size then buy online.
I put the shoes back in the box and say, “Sorry, but I’m not letting you try these on if you intend to do that” (Or words to that effect, but polite)
He left sheepishly.

Sure, go right ahead, complain about the prices.
But remember this, I’ve spent 15+ years out of the last 24 doing my own repairs, getting gradually more proficient and into more complex stuff before paying for my own qualification out of my redundancy*. I now have over 2 years actual workshop experience and share a workshop with a simply superb mechanic with a vast, encyclopaedic knowledge. We’re expected to know the smallest details of every bike that comes through the door, and keep parts in stock to repair anything.
It’s hard work, and we certainly don’t do it for the money. I do it because I enjoy it, and I hope I’m good at it because I get immense satisfaction from it.
That’s what you’re paying for. 🙂

*I said for years, half joking, that if I ever got made redundant I’d train as a bike mechanic. It happened out of the blue, and I put my money where my mouth is.

esher shore – you have it in a nutshell. Big business has seen the opportunity to cut out a middleman and increase margin, but attributing no value what that middleman might give to the customer. Typically middlemen are just another drain on profit but in the LBS operating model they are a value add service that keeps customers coming back.

But that has no value where there is no loyalty so trying, within reason, to support LBS without being milked as a cash cow. But it’s proving difficult and as a wider point, I think new prices are hyper-inflated – and normalised by magazines – and so I end up buying ebay second hand.

I used to be workshop manager/mechanic for a nice shop specialising in top end custom road frames/bikes. I do miss tinkering in the workshop and building some jaw droppingly nice road bikes, but I couldn’t do it for the money on offer anymore, and it was quite good for LBS wages.

I don’t however miss all the chancers and moaners as described above showrooming, trying stuff on/out etc……

I like my local bike shop. If they can get hold of stuff they can usually get it in as quick as I can get it mail order, so no delay there. I usually email about stuff I need, and I’ve given them enough business that they are happy to order for me with no deposit (yes, even expensive stuff) and always let me know, by email, that it’s in. Is this more expensive? Possibly, but i also appreciate their advice and know they will go a little further if I have a problem. I tend to build from frame up, cut and fit everything myself etc as I enjoy it and it is relief from my stress at work, but do get them to do work for me when I don’t have tools/fresh fluids/time and am happy to pay. You get what you pay for. Get it on the cheap? Ask yourself who is going short as a result and what the consequences will be, for you and for them.

For the OP, sorry to hear that you feel you’ve had less than satisfactory experiences from your LBS’s. All sides of the argument have been fairly well covered already in this thread its fair to say.

But… What I don’t get (and I’ve got a vested interest here) is just how polarised people are on the matter of LBS vs Online. The simple fact of the matter is that some people value service more than a bargain, and as long as there are LBS’s giving good service they will always survive. Some products (especially cheaper clothing items) lend themselves much better to being sold online though, and bike shops can be (quite rightly at times) reluctant to put them into stock in all sizes and all colours, and it’s times like this that the online boys with their big warehouses and buying power can come into their own. Bike shop owners often forget that some of the online big boys (and I say some with good reason, there’s definitely good ones and bad ones) often provide a good service for getting ride of last years stock that no LBS in their right mind wants to buy. Most of the big boys play ball and don’t discount current model stock too heavily, often not more than 10% (and every LBS I know of will knock 10% off on purchases for good customers and local club members), and once a product is old stock then it’s fair game regarding pricing IMO.

To all LBS owners… Know your value (don’t underestimate your worth, but certainly don’t overestimate it either!), always provide good service, and know which battles to pick and which ones you’ll only ever end up losing.