Anybody else came to the conclusion, that the accepted wisdom of lower action = easier to play, is complete an utter bullshit? On the interweb, this is a myth that is highly popular, it’s not low action = shit a sounding and difficult to play guitar, you need those strings to vibrate as freely as possible and to be high enough to have a bit of bounce and grip on them.

I’ve played for 20+ year, but in that time I’ve always been mostly acoustics/classicals lying aroung the house, so set up has generally just been what the guitar comes as.

But I decided about a year of so ago, I wanted to get into the leccy guitar more. (Not that I’ve never played leccy guitar, just that I’ve never been particularly focused on it.)

But anyhow i’ve had my mexi Strat for about a year now and I’ve had it in every possible configuration, blocked, straight neck, bent neck, strings low strings high, etc..

I’ve came to the conclusion that the best sounding and best playable way to have your guitar set up is basically:

Have a decent amount of relief in the neck, making it straight when there are no strings on it and letting the strings give it natural relief, seems a really good way(rather than pissing about with feeler guages and capos).

Strings, basically put them as high as possible(high E is about 2.2mm at the 12th, low is about 2.5mm). The fender recommended of 1.6mm is utter utter nonsense.

Getting the tremelo setup properly(blocked of is alright, but not great) is crucial I’ve jus found, it needs to rest freely on the screws, and this is the cricial bit that I didn’t realise, is that when you bend the stings, the tremelo block should also move, gives the guitar a beautifully bouncy feeling, and string bending is so easy. (Something I never actually realised till just this week 🙂 I’ve had it blocked for a we while now )

So anyhow, what your personal configuration for setting up your leccy guitar and what’s your general thoughts on guitar setup?

About 1.7 through to 2.2 on my electrics. The nut is filed to Warmouth standard which is a little lower than Fender and the truss rod is set so there’s just a little daylight in the middle of a ruler laid over the frets. When I’ve borrowed guitars with higher strings I find it uncomfortable and make unwanted noises when bending as I can’t mute the other strings.

I’ve been out of the game for a long time but I think your basic premise is a bit off… If you have fret buzz it’s generally a setup issue, whether or not you have high or low strings. Obviously it’s harder to do cleanly with lower strings and with tremelos, and neck and nut shape makes a difference too, and you need to take into account alt tuning… but on a healthy guitar you can generally attain a low string level without worrying about “vibrating freely”.

Also the thing about “make the neck straight without strings” doesn’t pass muster, different necks and rods have their own natural reaction to string tension. (my lovely silver series tele has a neck like a rubber band; my bc rich was a bastard to set up because its neck was so solid). And of course different strings exert different pressure too.

(a standard, unblocked trem will always move when you bend the strings, because physics… I guess you just mean enough to be noticable?)

It’s massively personal taste though and mostly it feels like you have a setup you like and you’ve confused it with a correct setup. That’s the reason I never really liked working on other people’s guitars, I’m a decent technician but a pretty horrible guitarist so it was like Days of Thunder, sometimes I’d just not really know what people wanted. Fender recommendations and shop setups are a starting point, same as bikes.

I can set it up with out fretbuzz at the fender recommended 1.6mm. fret buzz isn’t the issue. It’s more about the strings ringing freely, just giving it a much much better overall tone.

Re the trem, yes, so it’s really notice about, like there’s a 1-2mm movement when you bend a string up a couple of semi tones. That’s just a personal revelation though, I never realised it was ment to do that! 🙂

Aye, I know it’s all personally preference, but from a sound/tone point of view, higher is much much better, even acoustically, it’s very noticeable how much louder and cleaner the guitar sounds with the above set up, and it’s much easily to get the guitar to squeal(you know that way you play and you can get kinda dummy harmonics depending on how you strike the strings with the plectrum.)

educator, I find the exact opposite with lower string, it’s much more difficult to get a good grip on the string and it frets out, so you don’t get a clean bend thoughout.

Like NW says though, it is personal pref. And I guess I’m slightly more bias to higher action, being more acoustic orientated.

I’m just curious to other peoples setups. 🙂

I think its because you are coming from acoustics/classicals where you had
to work with higher action and wider neck – they had to be to make those natural sounds – room for the strings to vibrate – exactly as you say.
Electric tends not to be a “natural” sound -so restrictions in sounds that can be made by the physical string are less specific – basically any sound they make can be used – almost.
Its about what you like to play really – your acoustics/classicals background will make you potentially more disciplined in what you expect – you can have it how you want . Yes 1.6 is going to be tough to make work unless setup by somebody who knows all the ins n outs of the hardware and even then it may make horrible noises when played with your individual style.

You mean pitch harmonics when the string comes off the pick onto your thumb which gives a harmonic.

I’ve just had a play on my Mexican Strat. String height makes no difference to tone unless it’s so low it buzzes.

If the strings aren’t ringing freely because of string height/fret clearance then they’re buzzing, it’s the same thing (or something else is set up wrong, string choked in the nut or something, but that’s not really a height issue- it can be influenced by string height as the angle of departure changes though… It may have changed but mim fender setup used to be a wee bit random)

Since you’re happier with the high setup anyway it’s not important but I think for that part, you’ve basically attributed a setup issue to string height, then coincidentally fixed it with higher strings, rather than it really being a string height issue per se. But you’ve moved away from it anyway so it doesn’t matter.

Low as possible for me, bass and electric. Higher action tends to cause problems with intonation (for me, anyway)

finishthat – Member
make horrible noises when played with your individual style.

I think that is a very important point, I attack the guitar pretty violently. I can have a soft touch, and can play fairly dynamically, if I like, but I tend to play it pretty hard which is no doubt not an insignificant factor.

educator, yes pitch harmonics, didn’t know they had an actual name! 😆

Not too high, not too low. So I like my strings high enough to remove any buzz and to stop any fretting out/choking when I bend them as far as 2 whole steps up.

Northwind – Member
If the strings aren’t ringing freely because of string height/fret clearance then they’re buzzing, it’s the same thing (or something else is set up wrong, string choked in the nut or something, but that’s not really a height issue- it can be influenced by string height as the angle of departure changes though… It may have changed but mim fender setup used to be a wee bit random)

Since you’re happier with the high setup anyway it’s not important but I think for that part, you’ve basically attributed a setup issue to string height, then coincidentally fixed it with higher strings, rather than it really being a string height issue per se. But you’ve moved away from it anyway so it doesn’t matter.

i don’t really think so, I’ve got a enough relief in the neck to counter any fret leveling issues at a lower height., tbh, finishthat hit the nail on the head. It’s to do with how you play. if you hit the strings hard, you can’t avoid them been tempered by hitting the frets, so that’s not a set up issue, it’s a style issue I guess.

Yeah, but that’ll only be present while you’re wailing on it, I get the impression from your first post that you’re talking about a more consistent sound quality issue? I could be wrong though.

As low as possible without buzz for me. But i play a lot of palm muting and picked single notes though. i.e.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh2H3h_lkUE[/video]

Guess the answer is, i depends on what you’re playing.

Nice metal playing, Steve. You should really put the tortured pig running around the studio out of its misery though. 😉

Northwind – Member
Yeah, but that’ll only be present while you’re wailing on it, I get the impression from your first post that you’re talking about a more consistent sound quality issue? I could be wrong though.

Those 2 things are connected though, at a lower setup if you play more gently I can get it to sound fine. but it’s just physics, If you pluck a string harder the vibration is going to be much more. You know, if you’ve got the guitar setup at 1.6mm, it’s very easy get a string to vibrate beyond that.

i can even get it to play nice with a straight neck and playing more gently, but relief, just gives the guitar a slacker feel I find (btw I take your point earlier on my straight with no strings being dependent on the wood, fair comment that.)

With the neck too straight you’ll get buzzing when playing at the head end of the neck. Too bent and you’ll get buzzing when playing higher than the 12th. (for a height at the 12th that would normally play fine all the way up the neck with the right neck bend)

I’m not a great fan of metal, Steve, and junior has given me an overdose. I don’t “get” the death metal vocal noises so don’t be offended.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwxIg7YkaLc[/video]

An acoustic, but the principle is the same and the vibrations circles won’t be much different. but look how much the string it’s vibrating.

The lower string look like they’ve got about a 4mm cicrle, and the higher strings a bit less. Guitar looks like it’s been played at a reasonable attack level. not too soft not too hard.

A fairly irritating guy, but show you how much vibration at full pelt, obviously no-one plays this hard.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wg2Rm44qgU[/video]

A higher action can be useful to allow heavier strings – that’s where you’re likely to get a tonal improvement rather than height per se.

I gave up on my ‘own tone’ with the advent of digital modelling and being in a working covers band – the adaptability of being close to what the ear expects for a particular song won out for me. That and improving my posture from not lugging 30Kg of valves around.

educator, yes pitch harmonics, didn’t know they had an actual name!

They do but it’s pinch harmonics 🙂

As an acoustic beginner getting the height reduced helped a lot, my teacher local bar manager/performer recommended it.

We all learn something every day. Ta, Brassneck.

As long as the frets are dressed properly, the nut is cut properly, the neck angle is OK and the neck relief adjusted properly then a low action should sound as good as a higher action unless you are attacking the strings like a gorilla and making their amplitude so large they are bouncing off the frets. In fact a high action might give tuning problems as you would be stretching the strings when pushing them down onto the frets. My Strat is adjusted according to Fender’s recommendation and I wouldn’t like it any higher. The action on my Breedlove acoustic is a bit higher but that’s due to me not being able to get bridge saddle lowered any further due to a badly set neck. I do like thicker gauge strings on the acoustic as they sound better and I find having a bit more string to get hold of helps with cleanly fretting them.

It’s not just a tone question btw, half my point is that higher strings are just easier to play aswell. Low action is weedy feeling, there’s no substance to it, no grip and bending in particular sounds terrible..

btw i’d suggest if at the fender recommeded 1.6mm, and you aren’t hitting the string off the fret board, well you are playing like a fairy, play the guitar man, don’t tickle it! 😉

I used to use 9’s years ago with a really low action. I now prefer the feel of 10’s better tone and sustain for me. Action is a little higher may even try 11’s at some point. I think it’s definitely worth letting your guitars get used to the humidity in your house then getting a professional set up with your intended style and tuning etc in mind.

I like country and southern rock; bending the B an G strings on the first and second frets with 10s is hard work. With 9s I can accurately ease up to the note required. I used to use 9E, 10B, 14G but make do with standard 9-42/46 now. (James Burton invented 9s and Gibbons has used 8s)

Going from 10s to 11s was a thread I posted last week actually. But I’m sticking with the 10s now. The higher strings gives me the desired results! 🙂

Btw regarding intonation problems. I think you need to go pretty high for that to be an issue. I’ve tested the intonation at various points(I always adjust that when I change the setup) on the guitar and it’s bang on.

Unless you’ve got a custom made nut I very much doubt your guitar is spot on for intonation on all the strings on the first fret.

btw i’d suggest if at the fender recommeded 1.6mm, and you aren’t hitting the string off the fret board, well you are playing like a fairy, play the guitar man, don’t tickle it!

Its an electric guitar. If I want it louder I’ll turn up the volume

Edukator – Reformed Troll
Unless you’ve got a custom made nut I very much doubt your guitar is spot on for intonation on all the strings on the first fret

aye, fair point, but spot on is relative to acceptablity. along the 12th I’m within a couple of cents at worst.. it obviously varies elsewhere to a point, but a few cents is more than acceptable, considering the guitar is pressure sensitive with regards to intonation anyhow.

uponthedowns – Member
Its an electric guitar. If I want it louder I’ll turn up the volume

You’re missing the point(s), one of which which is that a guitar with lower action has a narrower dynamic range, another is it has less sustain. The later of which can also be solved with a boss compression sustainer aye, but natural is always better. There are more benefits, detailed above.

I’m not dissing your approach btw, it’s all good, just promoting my point of view. 😉

Uponthedowns has it about right. Correctly set up nut slot depths, level frets and neck relief are all vital. Playing action is a personal choice, there is no wrong or right action.

Slight thread hi-jack. For sustain has anybody tried the Ibanez Tube Screamer? I have acquired a 5w tube amp that has a great tone but is bloody loud when it’s over driven. Looking to get a decent over driven sound with a sensible volume level.

Inbred456 – Member
Slight thread hi-jack. For sustain has anybody tried the Ibanez Tube Screamer? I have acquired a 5w tube amp that has a great tone but is bloody loud when it’s over driven. Looking to get a decent over driven sound with a sensible volume level.

boss cs-3 compression sustainer is what you are after, tremendous pedal for ridiculous sustain.

Thanks Seos will check out some reviews. Always loved the sustain that Gary Moore got from that original Tube Screamer pedal.

Inbred456 – Member
Thanks Seos will check out some reviews. Always loved the sustain that Gary Moore got from that original Tube Screamer pedal.

It’s a great pedal, best when it used combination with other pedals, basically, it’s first in the chain, but can make (insert pedal(s)) come alive, essentially it’s for controlling the signal into various different boxes/amps, so on it’s own it’ll be fairly subtle, ie it’s not a tube screamer or a drive pedal, but it’s well worth having(one you get the concept of compression(for controlling dynamics and sustain, and aswell as tone, and boosting the signal.).

btw I duno how gary moore does his stuff. so it may not be relevant to his sound. I don’t really know his music.

You’re missing the point(s), one of which is that a guitar with lower action has a narrower dynamic range, another is it has less sustain

Sorry but that’s nonsense. I pick horizontally so the string vibrates mostly horizontally and not vertically so I can pick as hard or a soft as I want and no matter how hard I hit the string, as long as the neck is set up properly, its not going to hit a fret its not meant to. As long as the string is free to vibrate a low action will sustain as long as a high action. Action is really a personal preference. I’ll take a low action as its easier to play (loads of beginners have been put of the guitar for life by starting with cheap guitars with high actions) but if you like to fight the instrument and it works for you that’s great.

Guitar strings vibrate in ovals or circles. It’s nearly impossible to get a string to vibrate purely horizontally, there’s always a fair bit of movement horizontally and vertically..

Even if you could, sounds like an incredibly limiting way to play. Aye you pick horizontally, but the angle of attack varies considerably based on how you want a particular string to actually sound after it’s been struck.

low action is easier for beginners, purely because they’ve no strength in their fingers. No other reason. There is no fighting with higher action.