Just come home from a guided riding holiday, and as per usual for me, it’s always a mixed experience….

I think firms want to show off what they think are the ‘best’ routes around their areas, however, sometimes I end up feeling it’s an exercise in scaring the guests rather than giving them an experience. I’m resolutely average, and while I can appreciate the chance to expand my technical riding, I don’t want to have to be forced into that situation if the alternative is falling off the side of a mountain, or if I do ride it and cock it up, I might be falling a long way…You do realise I’ve got to go back to work next week, right?

Example one of bad guide behaviour…riding so fast and far down a trail that your first guest is effectively riding the section blind, not only that, but you were riding so fast, you missed a corner, and crashed…

Example two…There’s a drop off, “it’s ridable, as I just ridden it”…Oh well, that’s OK then

Example three…Here’s some really techy riding down a trail that’s an exposed ridgeline. Despite you knowing that at least 1 of your guests has told you that they’re extremely uncomfortable with those sorts of trails, and 2 guest you know are not capable of such techy riding, and will have to push/walk/scramble.

Am I being unreasonable? I wonder if firms realise that every single one of your guests is riding your ‘local’ trails blind for the first time? I know it must be a fine line between measuring the guests ability vs the trails you’ve got, but sometimes I feel like I’ve “gotten away with it” rather than expanded my riding ability, or felt I nailed a tricky descent.

sounds about the opposite of my experience but ages ago I spoke to a guy on a lift in Morzine who was off to guide in Whistler, said the biggest issue was so many guides at the time saw guiding as an extension of their riding time. It’s not, I’d probably have given feedback earlier on your experiences though.

Never had that problem when I’ve gone away. The Whiteroom ask before you go what your levels are and it usually falls into a running order and if folk don’t want to do it, they walk it, but always given plenty warning.

Who are you being guided by?

You just have to keep feeding this back to the companies concerned otherwise they may not even be aware.

Never had a problem with the guiding on our holidays, they have always been first class. I would have brought it up with them at the time, that’s what you are paying for.

Which company was it nickc? I’m going to book a trip in the near future and need to know who to avoid!

I had a similar experience to Nick the first guided holiday I did in Sierra Nevada. Day one I was already out of my comfort zone on very steep stuff, I was that on edge it just wasn’t fun (I do concede most others in the group found it fun though). Another day had a long ridge line section in it with a 100-300m almost vertical drop on one side, the trail itself wasn’t that techy but had a lot of wheel-grabbing type obstacles (where you need to roll very slowly and steer between a couple of rocks etc.), I’d have had a go were it not for the cliff on one side, in the end I (and most others) ended up pushing a lot.
On another day it was more my sort of trails (fast, flowing red type trails) so I was keeping up with the guide (a local teenager…) who without warning just disappeared from view, I braked hard and found myself on the edge of a an 8ft drop – I waited for the rest of the group to warn them and we found a little diversion to avoid it.
I can see it’s hard to cater for all requirements and abilities though, even within a group of friends but would have been nice to have had a chat about route options first and adapted to suit/split into different groups (guide numbers allowing). And I can understand that some guiding companies might assume if you’re paying to ride abroad it’s because you want something a bit gnarlier than is available in the UK but in reality I don’t think that’s the case for a lot of people, I just want a holiday in the sun with new trails, occasional uplifts etc.

It’s tricky though.

I’ve only been out on a couple of guided holidays, and it must be difficult for the guides to judge ability and appetite for technical trails.

The first time I went out with Switchbacks I was well out of my depth and on a hardtail. But crucially I was enjoying that. So what if 9/10 trails had features I’d probably never ride at home, it was still a challenge to try and clear them (and 9/10 i probably did).

2nd time was a couple of years later I had the opposite experience. I really struggled to get any ‘flow’ going, and everything was hard work (and I eventually broke my arm). Same ability, but for whatever reason my head wasn’t in it at all and I really should have found some blue trails!

One of my first guided holidays was in Spain where the guide was desperate to show us the ‘hardest’ trails even if this meant trudging for 90 minutes up a doubletrack full of snow and then trying to ride in even deeper snow at the top. We never went back!

On the other hand, people like Marco at Ciclo (and I’m sure many others) really take care to find out what you want and know the area so extensively they can tailer the riding. I guess if you’re the owner, you will probably be more attuned to your guest’s requirements than if you’re just there for a season – although I appreciate that’s a heck of a generalisation.

It was odd Tracey, even one guest explaining that he was much more happy on less steep technical trails, or ones that were less high consequence (twice in one ride). we continued to be taken down trails that were (in my mind) ridable only by very technically able riders (switchbacks that needed endo-ing around, long front-wheel-stopping rock gardens on super steep sections and so on)

I would be feeding back to company and guide in writing, plus asking for a goodwill gesture as they have spoiled the holiday and not delivered what they were asked for at the start of the adventure.

I have to admit I have always been put off the idea of guided holidays as I am worried about being out of my depth. I also worry I will spoil things for everyone else if they have to keep waiting for me. It’s really hard to judge how good/fit I am compared to how a website describes the riding.

Been to the Alps a few times on guided holidays and they were all spot on. They should be listening to the paying customer and giving you the experience you want, not what they fancy riding that day.

Shame you didn’t have the holiday you wanted mate

we continued to be taken down trails that were (in my mind) ridable only by very technically able riders (switchbacks that needed endo-ing around, long front-wheel-stopping rock gardens on super steep sections and so on)

See, that’s my idea of heaven!

Soz to hear this. Sounds like poor guiding to me, and possibly a shoddy outfit altogether. Groups should be split into abilities and preference so everyone gets the trip they want. And guides need to ride according to the group – that’s why guiding isn’t a barrel of laughs all of the time. You’re basically doing a job, if you’re doing it properly.

Having said that, there is a problem sometimes with people riding black runs in UK trails centres then hitting the Alps expecting to ride ‘expert’ trails out there. The standards are very different in the Alps and places like BC – generally way higher. Still, a decent guide knows this and allows for it. Next time maybe try http://www.bikeverbier.com – they have this whole thing nailed, and have done for more than a decade.

A someone who did a season of guiding in Whistler in 2007, I’d also comment that the people going on the holiday should also do the appropriate research on the area that they are planning on going to and then make a realistic decision on whether that area is suitable. No end of times I’d have to guide a group and someone walked all the way up the climb…..and then walked all the way down the descent! This would have been on some of the easiest trails in the area.

But yes, guides and companies can suck too. On more than one occasion I ‘guided’ people down a trail that I’d never even ridden myself (Tunnel Vision springs to mind). I still remember pretending to go for a pee behind a tree but in reality looking at a map because I couldn’t find the trail, but I wasn’t allowed to let on that I’d not ridden the trail before. Joy….

See, that’s my idea of heaven!

Indeed, hence my OP that mentioned mixed feelings…I want to expand my riding, and I’m no stranger to steep techy riding (I live in Heptonstall) but a lot of this stuff had very little bailout room. I want to be on holiday to have some fun, ride “some” stuff that pushes me, and gets my heart going, but this stuff was relentlessly very very tech.

+1 what walleater says about research. Some resorts are just very steep and exposed. Not saying that’s what happened here tho. And yes, if you’re in Heptonstall, there’s plenty of Alpine-style cheeky round there in terms of steep and tight. Not so much relentless exposure though. Defo give Bike Verbier a look next time. I’m in Hebden and if you like the techy stuff around here, you’ll probably love it over there (sh*t loads of amazing singletrack and techy stuff, big mountain trails for pretty much every ability, and intelligently split groups led by experienced guides).

It’s taken me 3 years to find the right holiday for me. The first year was way too much for my skill level and I ended up battered and bruised and stressed, the next one was better but I still found a lot of the riding too steep and rocky for me to enjoy and other things weren’t great about the holiday in terms of organization and food/accomodation. This summer we went with a company that friends of ours have gone with for years and had an awesome time, they are spot on with giving you the ride you want/need and have plenty of guides so there are always 2 options for people wanting to do different things and everything else there is spot on and professional but mega friendly at the same time. Keep trying till you find the right hol for you.

Interesting subject – sounds like there was a definite lack of comprehension on the part of the guide and/or company.

I like the idea of a guided holiday, but the reality often seems to be a compromise in some way or another.

Even on an enjoyable holiday riding great trails with a well-respected provider we got a bit frustrated at being lumped in a group with newbies and then having a guide who wouldn’t or couldn’t ride as fast as us on a lot of the descents while leading the way (and we are by no means elite level).

Heard friends have been unhappy with a lack of riding time at other companies who are well-regarded on here.

Tell us who it was though Nick – I think a few of us would be interested in signing up.

😉

I was partly on the same trip as Nick (long weekend rather than full week) and having seen the level of the other guests (Nick excepted!) I am surprised they continued to push the limits. It’s obviously a bit more tricky to alter a route once you’re on it but if all the guests are making it clear they aren’t comfortable then it should be easy to pick some more suitable routes later in the week.

Having said that the description of the holiday does make it clear you’ll be riding some very technical singletrack. I was well out of my comfort zone on a few occasions but other parts of the trail more than made up for it.

The main guide, whilst a lovely bloke, definitely saw it as an extension of his riding time on occasions, possibly worsened by picking up his new bike during Nick’s week. On the flip side, he couldn’t have gone further out of his way to help us with our literally last minute booking and whilst we were there, there was always at least one other guide with us.

I’d definitely feed back to them Nick

Had a great time in BC I can certainly recommend the trails, they just flow. Came away thinking, why hadnt I gone to Canada before. Had great local guides which I think helps a lot as they could pick the right trails for the group

I’d definitely feed back to them Nick

Well, I took that advice and emailed the company some feedback about the sort of riding we did, and have received no response back, so I guess my comments were either unwelcome or he couldn’t be bothered to reply.

The holiday firm is Singletrack Safari

I’m resolutely average, and while I can appreciate the chance to expand my technical riding, I don’t want to have to be forced into that situation if the alternative is falling off the side of a mountain

such false modesty, Nick!

If your experienced butt is twitching then I expect these are v challenging trails and definitely not going to be appropriate for less experienced riders on the holiday. After all, you taught me how to ride, and I’m amazing.

Mind you, I’ve seen you fall off at least two mountains so you’ve got form for this 🙂

Mind you, I’ve seen you fall off at least two mountains

Oh, I’ve fallen off plenty more since then… 😆

Yeah, I’ve had a mixed bag – particularly as someone who usually goes on their own. Have always come away enjoying the holiday though for one reason or another.

Remember once turning up on the same week as a group of Enduro racers. I am definitely, emphatically not an enduro-er. Sat in my hotel room at the end of the first day unsure whether I wanted to face the next day, I’d crashed so many times trying to keep up with them. Day two, I stopped trying to keep up and had a much better day. One of the guides noticed and would take me down an easier route where that was an option.

I think it must be hard for guides, there’s not a lot of money in guiding so they can’t have a huge number of guides on hand as backup. Confounding this, some people go on holiday with a shopping list of trails they ‘must do’, La Varda in Les Arcs, for example. I think as customers sometimes we should do a better job of communicating our uncomfort to the guide – I’m definitely guilty of ‘sucking it up and having a miserable time because I don’t want to be seen as a whinger’. They’re mountain leaders and guides, not mind-readers.