Is it possible to run a guerilla style event without becomming liable for everyone’s actions and opening yourself up to getting sued? I assume a disclaimer would not really cut it in court?

Wondering how Ride to the Sun manage actually?

I started reading the audax regulations but it’s all controls this and that so not what I am thinking.

The world needs more adventure, less signposts and feed stations…

1. RTTS is (in my opinion) just a big informal group ride, no entrance fee, so no different to a club ride, and it’s sensible in the fact that it’s at a time of day when the roads are dead.

2. My local ‘MTB group’ (weirdo pied piper type leader obsessed guy) run what they call a ‘pirate enduro’, on trails that none of them have ever laid as much as a mattock on, at stupid times of day (like a saturday afternoon when folks are quite rightly out for a walk), often after poor weather. And they charge to enter.

So, it depends if you’re a 1 or a 2…

I was going to suggest Audax – controls can be info based (what brand of tractor does old Giles have in ten acre meadow), or get a receipt from a shop/cafe rather than a feeding station with a person.

I was thinking more 1) but just wondered what the potential outcome is if something happened. I’m thinking big gravel ride here so sort of low risk unless people get lost in a forest and are never seen again.

@twicewithchips it only seems possible to validate completion with a fairly simple route shape. An off road gravel event is a rather complex wiggle about and I don’t see how you could prove someone hadn’t shortcut parts. There aren’t really shops either.

I think you would be on very dodgy ground. You would be organising something and therefore responsible if negligent. Equally disclaimers don’t really work either if you are considered negligent.

Have a look at the TLI. I run CX races under their umbrella and they are the rules and regs seem pretty simple. A gravel ride is just a big CX circuit.

The prevailing thinking still seems to be that disclaimers make it worse- it demonstrates a level of organisation that you’re trying to deny, and if it says something like “I understand that this is risky” then you’re admitting there’s an unmanaged risk.

But where the line really is between a Ride and an Event I have no clue. I used to run motorbike rides and I guarantee an ornery family member could have made me a lot of problems if there was ever a bad incident, even though they were always “lots of people going for a ride, together” not “Northwind taking you on a ride”

You are ine borders? Drop me an email if you like with your thoughts. I’m the sec. of the NE cyclocross league who do events around Newcastle.

Might be able to put you in contact with the right people to ask.

Equally try the guys who did the Dirty Reiver.

Yes, I see that could be tricky. I’ve seen some case of ‘self led’ approaches that basically allow some routefinding – so long as you get to the extremities the bits in between are up to you.
Works better on out and back or big loops.

Assuming its essentially a ride – you are only cheating yourself if you take a short cut. Does it matter?

I did the tweedlove Natural Tweed thing a couple of years ago, that seems to be broadly similar to what you are after?

natural tweed

Are you planning to make any money from it?

If not, I honestly don’t see why you couldn’t say “we’re doing this big gravel ride, here’s a gpx, meet at xyz at 9am if you fancy it”.

Whether the resulting ride would fall under the banner of “responsible access” might be my biggest concern.

We’ve just run Tweed Cross under TLI but I thought there’d be too many rules. I’ll get a look at them cheers.

Imagine something like the Dirty Reiver (different area) but you just get a GPX file and a group start, no signs, no timing, no food, no badges, no entry fee. What could possibly go wrong 😉

I still have some bits of route to double check. It will probably just end up being my personal training loop for the Dirty Reiver and Guerilla Gravel 200 will remain a figment of my deranged imagination.

Are you planning to make any money from it?

No, that specifically is what I think is wrong with events. That and removing the actual adventure from adventures…

I’ve just remembered that audax call them ‘permanents’, but not sure that really helps you.
I could well be interested if you get any further!

RestlessNative – Member

@twicewithchips it only seems possible to validate completion with a fairly simple route shape. An off road gravel event is a rather complex wiggle about and I don’t see how you could prove someone hadn’t shortcut parts. There aren’t really shops either.

Ask Charlie the Bikemonger? He runs the Gravel Dash as a cycling club, affiliated to British Cycling (it only costs a couple of quid per person to register as a club), so is insured just like any other Sunday club run along with indemnity for it’s organiser.

Or the HT550, which has even less, just a nominal route and start time with no organisation. The only prize for the winner is notoriety.

Ask Charlie the Bikemonger? He runs the Gravel Dash as a cycling club, affiliated to British Cycling (it only costs a couple of quid per person to register as a club), so is insured just like any other Sunday club run along with indemnity for it’s organiser

I could see that working. Join the club in advance and it is just like any club run. You would in theory be insured for liability. You might still need a risk assesment but that is relatively easy to do. If any real risks come out of it then it wouldn’t be wise to go ahead in any case until appropriate measures were taken.

These people are trying something similar. I’m not sure how successful they are:

http://www.theracingcollective.com/

(No connection)

Depends what you have in mind as an “event” but look at Critical Mass in London (and elsewhere globally) – no one’s “in charge” or leading it – it’s a load of people who happen to all go for a ride at the same time as each other on the same roads.

You could say “I’m going to ride from here to here via here on this date at this time” and if other people happen to have the same idea, then so be it, you’re not responsible for them doing so.

If not, I honestly don’t see why you couldn’t say “we’re doing this big gravel ride, here’s a gpx, meet at xyz at 9am if you fancy it”.

I suppose like this, but I’d leave out the “meet at.. if you fancy it” part – I’d say when I was planning to do it, but not leave any suggestion that I was encouraging, suggesting, recommending or enticing anyone else to do it. Then if anyone else did decide to ride the same route, it really is nothing to do with me.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/prosecution-of-a-mtb-downhill-race-organiser-and-marshal-at-llangollen
If your going to organise something do it properly for your sake, the people who are attending and the people you are interacting with.