Hi everyone…

I’ve got a question about upgrading my groupset. I’ve been using the same shimano 105 groupset for the best part of 10 years and its pretty beat up.
And I thought while I’m at it I’ll upgrade to ultegra.

My doubt is, is it posible to go from a 9 speed 105 derailleur to a 10 speed ultegra?
The cassette will be wider right? and does this imply having a wider rear wheel barrel to accommodate it?
…or are the cogs that little bit thinner to make it the same width as a 9 speed cassette?

From looking at the available products, most seem to be 10 or 11 speed, and the only 9 speeed compatible ultegra is the oldish 6600.
The newer 6700, 6800 are only 10/11 speed compatible.

And a follow on question, going for a 10 speed derailleur obviously means buying a 10 speed cassette but would I also need 10 speed compatible STI shifters?

thanks in advance!

10sp cassette is IIRC actually slightly narrower than 9sp so you might need a tiny spacer on your free hub, but it will fit fine.
You will need a 10sp cassette, shifters, rear mech and chain. Front mech and chainset will probably be fine.

However considering how cheap you can get whole groupsets, for example from Ribble or Merlin cycles it’s probably best to buy a whole groupset in one go and sell what you have now. Working STI road shifters always sell very well for example.

it will be fine, 9 and 10 use the same basic free hub, not 100% on this but you may need a thin washer behind the cassette. The spacing changed so they squeezed an extra sprocket in rather than making the body longer.

and yes you would need 10spd shifters to go with the 10 speed cassette, but the rear mech should be ok, depending on how trashed it is.

if memory is correct Shimano 10sp has a spacer before you put the cassette on, making it narrower (until spacer used) thsn the 9sp cassette.

Yes you would need to upgrade your sti to one with an extra click for that extra gear.

(I am not a mechanic)

10speed cassette is actually a tiny bit narrower than a 9speed, I think
– you can buy spacers (1mm maybe ?) to get them snug and stop rattling on a 9sp freehub

you don’t need to change the rear mech for 10sp on road groupsets, 9sp 105 will be fine – of course you need the shifters and cassette (and chain)

Course, if you’re buying a full groupset you can change everything over for new bits

2 mins too slow here! at least the answers all say about yhe same…

I just got a brand new full 105 groupset from Merlin for £370 (brakes, shifters, cassette, BB, crank, chain, durraliers, cables). I doubt you could get a partial groupset cheaper than that. I think the Ultegra set was a couple of hundred quid more but was the new 11 spd set.

Crazy good value the for the whole groupset!

Quite an interesting comparison of groupset weights here…
http://www.totalcycling.com/component-weights.html

There’s only about 200g difference between 105 and ultegra, and most of that’s in the chainset

5700 is the latest 10spd 105
6700 is the previous ultegra group, now they’re at 6800 which is 11spd and electronic

To be slightly pedantic 6800 is mechanical 11 speed, 6870 is electronic 11 speed.

To the OP, if you went for 11 speed you would need a complete new group set as the rear mech is 11 speed specific. You would also need a new rear hub / wheel as this has a wider free hub body than 9 / 10 speed.

Mister P. Seriously.
That is exactly the sort of knowledge we come here for. Thanks.

So, does anybody know where you can get the washer from that let’s you convert from a 9-speed cassette to a 10- speed?

They come with the cassettes, or are available as spares from any LBS. These.

Shermer, the LBS should have loads knocking about. You get them with some wheelsets and people don’t always want them.

As for the original question, current 105 is excellent and borrows from above so is in many ways an upgrade from your decade ago 105. Go for the whole group, not a partial as it will be compromised if you get slick new parts running with old.

As said, the Merlin group deal is stonking. Oh, and don’t use cheap cables as you route them under the bar tape. My bike came with Jagwire, just swapped these for Shimano pre-lubed and the shifting is transformed. It also seems a little smoother to go for the outer cable route (not the middle one in the photo, top is brake) and direct the cable around the outside and under the bar.

So, black or silver?

I went for black on a white bike with black bar tape – looks the business (on a Giant Defy Composite). But will need to put some helitape on the crank arms as I hate to see scuffed crank arms on a black crankset.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, its really helped me out

@robdob
I had a look at those offers – its like 550 quid for the ultegra groupset,
do you think thats cheap? Its sort of pricey but then again I havent been shopping for road groupsets
recently.

@mrmo & @scaredypants
The rear mech is about the most battered part of the groupset which I decided
to change and from there I thought about changing to a 10sp ultegta
full groupset.

@herman shake
Hmmm, ive seen other people say great things about the current 105 too.
And no doubt its better than my 10 year old one.
I always wanted to upgrade, to ultegra but opinions seem to be divided on it.
Some people say you only get weight gains (mainly in the crankset)
…and others say the difference in gear shifting is really noticeable.

Going by everyones advice I think I’ll go for a the full groupset, the only
thing being the prices.
I’m still a bit baffled by you guys saying its good value – not saying
they’re ripoff prices but 550-600 pounds is a lot of money.
Had a look at Ribble and Merlin cycles, and their prices were around that mark.
two others I’ve used are wiggle and probikeshop which dont vary that much
either.
My preference would be the ultegra 6700 grey probably 🙂

Try pricing up the components you need individually, even used. A decent pair of STI shifters is well onto the £200 region alone unless you really luck out on ebay, and similar or more for a scuffed up crankset. The rrp for the Ultrgra group set is around or over a grand so 50% discount can’t be sniffed at. I’m not saying its good value for money, but you won’t get it much cheaper if at all.

If you do take the plunge then enjoy the experience. I was like a kid at Christmas when I opened the big box to find all the nice new blue Shimano boxes inside for all the 105 groupset items. I know it’s not very environmentally friendly but I love a bit of nice glossy packaging.

True, but I’m always a bit sceptical about RRP prices. I think it’s just a ploy to give you the impression you’re getting a bargain.
Then again, it is high quality kit with workmanship that deserves good money – but nearly 600 quid is a massive dent.

So I didn’t quite understand you – the shiny new boxes was a full 105 groupset?

As for myself – the two most worn/used parts of the groupset have to be the rear mech and maybe the shifters (one of them is missing a piece).
It still shifts fine but I have to be very careful no to over shift and change 2 gears at the same time. And on top of that its a 10 year old groupset and not even full 105 – the brakes are Tiagra.

The band new 105 gear I see online looks nice but I’ve always wanted to upgrade to ultegra having had 105 for so long – and if I’m spending 350, another 200 gets you the ultegra group.
I’ll have another think about it 😐

If your interested I have a used Ultegra drive train up for sale…
Everything except rear mech which is 105 but all in silver.

10sp STI’s (older style with external cables)
C/Set
Front Mech (braze on)
105 Rear Mech
Cassette (new) but 105 I think

You can have the lot for £280

I have brakes as well if needed.
Drop me an email if you are interested.

I prefer the 6600 Ultegra – the shifter ergonomics are far nicer IMO, plus the internals aren’t as exposed, the shift is a lot cleaner and you can change 3 gears in one sweep. Been a bit underwhelmed by the 5700/6700/7900 groupsets.

I’d be tempted by Ron’s offer.

You have to hunt around. I’ve seen
105 5700 shifters for £100
105 Rear Mechs for £30
Ultegra Rear Mechs for £45
10 speed chains £15
Ultegra Brakes f+r ~ £70
Or 105 brakes f+r £60
105 cassettes ~ £30
and 105 Chainsets for £60 (Merlin afaik)
and allow something for the front mech.

105 cassette 20.99 at Merlin at the mo!

Another point in favour of getting a whole new group set is that the newer levers have a different pull ratio for the brakes, I.e. The 10/11 speed sti’s won’t work properly with your old brake calipers.

If it’s just chain rear mech and cassette you need, then I would be tempted to get Tiagra level 9spd parts (available very cheaply now) and keep the bike going over winter, then buy a new group set/bike next year.

If weight is your thing might be an idea to use a SRAM Rival chainset.
Seen them on offer for under £100. Much lighter than Shimano.

@ron burgundy
Thanks for the offer but the rear ultegra mech was pretty much the main reason I was thinking of a new groupset – coz the one I have is well used.
But that’s thrown up other doubts….
“10sp STI’s (older style with external cables)” What does this mean exactly? The newer ones have their cables routed internally?

@njee20
You prefer the older 6600 than the newer 6700 10speed?
If I remember correctly my 10 year old 105 can shift 3 at a time also.

Newer 105 and Ultegra have cables routed under the bar tape – as per campagnolo. This required a redesign of the shifter internals as the exit angle is rotated. The net effect was that there is increasing cable tension and the shifting action is not as smooth. Tiagra retains the external cabling (and probable mecahnicals of old ultegra) and, in my opinion is lighter and less clunky than Ultegra 6700. The newer shifter shape suits my smaller hands better, but the shift is not as nice. I have 6600, 6700 and 10 speed Tiagra.

The dark grey Ultegra looks nice though, and has carbon levers 8)

You prefer the older 6600 than the newer 6700 10speed?
If I remember correctly my 10 year old 105 can shift 3 at a time also.

Correct, they ‘downgraded’ it for 6700. Gone back the other way for 6800 though IIRC.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-Ultegra-6700-10sp-Groupset-SILVER-Brand-New-Boxed-/301016727559?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item4615fec007

tempting… 😀

Or the new 6800 11spd set up for a shade under £20 more….

http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/road-parts/transmission/groupsets-road-bike/shimano-ultegra-6800-groupset.html

I fitted my new 105 set up to my new road bike and transferred the new Tiagra stuff onto my wet weather/commute bike. I must say that I have not noticed a deterioration in shifting quality or performance with 105. In fact it pretty much feels the same.

Yeah but as “Mister P” says…

if you went for 11 speed you would need a complete new group set as the rear mech is 11 speed specific. You would also need a new rear hub / wheel as this has a wider free hub body than 9 / 10 speed.

And I dont really want to have to pay for extras like a new hub. I’d want a new groupset to be as compatible as posible.

I’ll keep an eye on the offers but to be honest my rear mech 105 has been behaving itself. I think I had just negelcted it for years. Now its had a good clean and I have new jockey wheels on the way in the post.
It’d probably need a good service but I dont have the courage to take a rear mech apart yet 😛

Ah, forgot about the hub issue. Obviously why its only a bit more expensive than the 10spd version then.

I think after 10yrs your 105 mech’s probably nearing the end of its useful life. The spring is probably weaker than it used to be so will never perform as new. Would a 9spd Sora mech be a wiser investment? Its probably the same as the 105 mech from about 5yrs ago, or even the last generation Ultegra 9spd mech and you can get them new for about £30.

Well, that was one of my original doubts. Whether I’d have to invest in other parts to be able to use a new ultegra derailleur.

But I suppose I could get this one :
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-ultegra-sl-6600-8910-speed-rear-derailleur/

which is 9sp compatible and forget about the rest. Since its 9sp, it’ll work with my 105 STI shifters right?

The only thing being, its £60 on wiggle.
Where did you see them for 30 ?

You can get new Sora rear mechs off ebay from uk suppliers for under £30. Seems a better option than trying to keep your 9spd 105 soldiering on until you decide to upgrade.

Yeah, seems like a good idea.
And even the new 105 rear mechs arent that pricey either.

Im beginning to think putting a brand spanking new ultegra groupset on my 8 year old bike is a bit over the top. The bike would be worth less than the groupset to be honest.
Maybe I’ll just go ahead and get new components when they’re actually needed rather than fork out a load of cash for the full group.